The Peoples Vote

Now that the Labour Party have indicated they support the so called people’s vote on any EU deal, and possibly including a yes or no vote to remain a member of the EU, another referendum has become more likely.

The Tories might oppose another vote but we know that means nothing to Theresa Mayhem, she is weak and possibly only still PM by default. The question I have is this,

Should Scottish voters take part in any so called people’s vote?

For me this mess is mainly an English mess not a Scottish one but sadly we are in the U.K. Now I am of a mind to not vote in another EU referendum as I really do think this is England’s problem and I also think that a vote to remain in the EU kills off any chance of a Scottish independence referendum any time soon, possibly even in what is left of my lifetime.

Speaking to some friends they feel that not voting in a people’s vote is undemocratic, some feel it would be wrong and a form of self harm while some others agree and that a Scottish boycott would make a no vote more likely and thus more beneficial to Scotland.

It really is an interesting dilemma to say the least if the scenario comes about. It will be a difficult decision to make as I have not never voted but my priority is Scottish Independence and I would not want to do anything that delays or stops that from happening.

What will you do if there is a people’s vote?

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17 comments

  1. Brian McGowan

    The Scottish govt should tell WM that they are advising the people of Scotland not to participate unless another REMAIN vote in Scotland means we can either 1. Hold a new Indyref and/or 2. Negotiate directly with the EU to stay in Single market and whatever else is best for our country.

    • Anonymous

      Brian
      That is a very interesting proposition but they would never accept anything from Scotland would they. We just don’t matter other than what they can strip from Scotland, we get lied to all the time. The oil and gas running out a couple of years ago and now we have more than Norway for the Tories to give away to their pals both here and in the USA. Total joke of a so called country but I am of a mind to not take part in another EU referendum, it will take a lot of thought for me the next time. I really do think that a vote to remain kills independence and I also suspect that some in the SNP would be very happy for that to be the case.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

      • Brian McGowan

        Bruce – on that, I’ve just read Craig Murray’s blog on the subject of him trying, unsuccessfully, to book a meeting room at the upcoming SNP Conference. He has been refused, for what seems to me to be spurious reasons. Like yourself, he is among the leading pro Indy websites who make a difference.
        More and more I am concerned about the SNP. I had a chat recently with my SNP MSP. His belief is that you have to convert people one at a time. While I see the logic of one to one persuasion, it will take forever. And while you are going through this type of evangelism, today’s supporters will get fed up and drift away. So you lose as many as you gain. I just cannot see the sense in it.

        • Bruce Hosie

          Brian
          I just read it and I am not surprised. The SNP, as I have commented before, are taking huge risks with both their membership and the yes voters. Splitting the yes vote is exactly what the yoons want and the last thing yes needs but if any party goes against its mandate and manifesto well hell mend them. If I was a member I would be asking some serious questions and when elections come around for positions in the party I would be electing people who will do as the membership ask. I think NS is really good but she is no AS and I never worshipped at the alleged cult of either but they are taking a huge gamble. I think the polls will slump if there is not some kind of announcement next week at the conference I really do. Either that or people will start to think we need a YES Scotland party whose main aim is actually to win independence not independence in a 100 years. Be interesting to see where this goes.

          Thanks for commenting.
          Bruce

  2. Stan Wilson

    If the vote is a rerun of the Brexit referendum then we only take part on condition Scotland, if votes remain, cannot be taken out of the EU. If the vote is only on which type of deal we exit the EU on then no participation in a vote that ignores our decision, as a Nation, to stay in the EU. If we take part in a People’s Vote, we are virtually saying we agree to exit the EU, letting Westminster and England override our vote to remain. This would negate the call for Indyref2 .

    • Anonymous

      Stan
      That is kinda what I have been thinking but you have put it so much better than myself. If we take part in a vote on the deal we give it legitimacy and that just gives the Tories and the bigots more ammo in their war on the poor and most vulnerable. These clowns really want to take this country back in time to when we had poor houses and the average age was 45 or something, they are scumbags and I don’t care if the YES police don’t like the use of the word.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

    • Alan

      A boycott is tricky. It would be interpreted by unionist forces as Scotland “not caring what the outcome is and wishing to stay part of the UK whatever happens.” Also, there is a risk that the eurosceptic voters of Scotland will ignore the boycott, distorting a Scotland result.

      Of the following scenarios, which do you think gives IndyRef2 a boost?

      Scenario one: People’s Vote UK results(Scotland reduced EU support but still majority)
      Remain/soft deal: 48%(53%)
      No deal: 52%(47%)

      Scenario two: People’s Vote UK results(Scotland increases EU support)
      Remain/soft deal: 49%(69%)
      No deal: 51%(31%)

      Scenario three: People’s vote UK results(Scotland’s Remainers boycott, allowing no-dealers to win)
      Remain/soft deal: 47%(47%)
      No deal: 53%(53%)

      Regardless of what the options are, we must vote. Turnout last time was disappointing and is why there wasn’t a proper “brexit bounce” surge for Yes.

      And yes, if the UK does decide to stay in the EU after all, IndyRef2 is off until after 2021. Has that penny dropped yet? It’s why the SNP has been so “reserved” about pushing for IndyRef2. Holding an early one would have changed politics UK-wide, could have resulted in Brexit being cancelled during the campaign, saw a larger No result in 2014 and then Brexit comes back in a couple of years time.

  3. Alan

    Vote remain if possible, of course. If England changes its mind, that’s fine(but don’t think the UK will instantly be repaired) and we can seek a fresh mandate in 2021 or 2025. If they don’t change their mind and continue to be majority Leave, then it is important that Scotland continue to emphasise its preference for EU membership. Really, really don’t want it to be reduced to less than 55% pro-EU. Indeed, any reduction from the 62% in 2016 is problematic – I hope we end up with an increase.

    The big problem is if this People’s Vote is too narrowly focused. For example, option 1 is May’s deal(probably Norway style by the time we get there) and option 2 is No Deal.

    WTF do we do then? As I recall, the Norway deal is the SNP’s suggested compromise from nearly two years ago. We’d have to hold our noses and vote for it, knowing that England almost certainly prefers No Deal.

    However, Labour hasn’t made a People’s Vote their priority. They have only put it in as a feeble, weak backstop _IF_ they can’t force a snap election. No deal by default is still the likely outcome. No people’s vote at all.

    • Bruce Hosie

      Alan
      I suppose it would depend on what was being asked. If it was a terrible deal or no deal then I can see where some people think that voting at all is an endorsement of those offers. It is a hard one either way, a vote might never happen but nothing would surprise me with this government at all. It’s all a shambles but after 27 months you would think we wouldn’t be having debates about food. How this government have survived is beyond me to say the least, total bunch of clowns. If there is a vote I’ll have to have a long think so thanks for your opinions as it provides a different take and we are going to need that.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

    • Brian McGowan

      Helena, remember that old excuse from 2014… my heart says this, my head says this other thing?
      Well, my heart agrees with your sentiment. But only “civil disobedience” with very clearly defined objectives.

    • Bruce Hosie

      Helena
      I’m starting to feel that way. If the choice is bad or worse then I can’t see me giving them any sort of argument that my vote was an acceptance of the choices given to me. The SNP also need to get the finger out.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  4. Daisy Walker

    I doubt there will be a genuine Peoples Vote, its just a bone for the voters in England to chew on, and a tool to attempt to put a spanner in the movement for Yes. No Deal is the planned outcome from what I can see.

    But, if there is one, I think the SNP and the Greens should point out repeatedly – the Scottish vote on Brexit was completely ignored the first time and nothings changed.

    They should neither be for nor against the vote, but what they should do, is use the opportunity presented, to hold a Consultative Referendum on Scottish Negotiating Powers AT THE SAME TIME (that way they don’t have to pay the costs 2 times over).

    The question should be along the lines of,

    ‘Should the Scottish Government have Full Powers to negotiate Directly with the EU with regards the wishes of the Sovereign People of Scotland.’

    This avoids the Indy question (for the moment), and incorporates Devo Max, it also incorporates the Scottish Remain vote.

    In this way, people could legitimately boycott the peoples vote and at the same time, achieve a really big vote for the Scottish Govt.

    Now wouldn’t that be interesting. And of course they don’t need permission for a Consultative Referendum.

    If they float this idea out there, the Britnats will brick it big time. Remember in 2013, while all the polls for Indy were in the 20’s, support for devo max was well over the 50% mark. That has not changed.

    And if the Britnats stop it, it will again strengthen the cause for Indy.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Daisy
      I don’t think there will be another indy ref any time soon to be honest. I am not convinced the SNP want to go yet and Theresa Mayhem is going to fight tooth and nail to make sure one doesn’t happen, where that leaves us I am not sure to be honest. We are not a country that does civil disobedience at all and marching won’t do it I suspect. There could be a so called peoples vote to force a GE or May out but she has shown that she will cling on to power as she appears to love it. It will depend on, sadly, Tory backbenchers and their right wing nut jobs, what a sorry state of affairs. I am still unsure if I would vote in a peoples vote, I would have to have a real hard think about it to be honest.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  5. billy

    i think scotland should vote in a peoples vote snp should tell westminster if scotlands vote is ignored again then independence ref should called immediately no ifs or buts

    • grumpyscottishman

      Billy
      They would never agree to it either way, I am not sure to be honest. I know people who have said they won’t vote and others who say we must. I can see both sides of the argument, I suppose we will just have to wait and see what happens.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

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