Have we got it all wrong, maybe we should also be campaigning for English independence!

I have started reading Gavin Esler “How Britain Ends” English Nationalism and the Rebirth of Four Nations. So far, a very interesting read. It has got me wondering though if we have got it partially wrong in how we go about returning Scotland to that of a normal country, an independent one. It is clear there has been a rise in English nationalism since the EU Referendum, now I do not like the shift to the right by many English voters, the shift to the scumbag Tory Party, I respect that it is their choice to make, but the fact a Tory scumbag Government is then imposed on Scotland is not acceptable, it never has been. It is one of the biggest problems of the United Kingdom, what England wants the United Kingdom gets, it is no longer sustainable.

First-Past-the-Post is not just deeply unrepresentative, it is poisonous to democratic politics. It fundamentally undermines real democratic values. (Prof Colin Talbot)

In our undemocratic first past the post voting system English voters will go Tory more often than not. Since 1955 there have been 18 General Elections and the Tories have won 11 of them and Labour 7. Labour last won a General Election in 2005 with the Tories returning to power in 2010. The Tories have not won a General Election in Scotland since 1955, 13 years before I was born. Since 1968, when I was born, I have had to endure 9 Tory Governments out of 14 General Elections, that is not democracy, that is voters in England deciding my government for me. Labour won every popular vote in Scotland up to 2010 in Scotland in General Elections, yet it made little difference to the actual result UK wide, that is not democracy that is a colony.

First Past the Post elections are a poison. The Alternative vote referendum, always destined to lose, was a chance for change but was rejected so what we are left with is imposed Governments on Scotland that lack transparency, grow cynicism, and allow the Government to avoid democratic accountability in Scotland, all undemocratic as Scotland has zero power.

In 2020 49% of voters in England favoured English independence as an option, maybe we need to also be taking advantage of that. There is a feeling, according to Gavin Esler, that many in England believe Scotland gets too much. Of course, we don’t when you consider that it is Scottish natural resources being the only thing that keeps the UK relevant on the world stage economically, but how do we take advantage of that sentiment. How do we encourage the English that they would be better going it alone, that England would be better as an independent nation.

If Scotland becomes independent the Scots will become a good deal poorer. But the English, who have supported Scotland for years, will become a good deal richer. (Vernon Colemon English Blogger)

Now I accept that Scottish independence would be too much to lose for the establishment and the posh in England. They would lose control of the natural resources that Scotland has; they would maybe lose any plans for the water that we have a lot of while their land, which they own far too much of in Scotland, would maybe be under threat. They would also lose their permanent seat on the UN Security Council, but ordinary English voters won’t feel that way will they.

Maybe an interesting approach would be to convince ordinary people in England of how much of a burden we are, how great England could be again if it just got rid of the dirty Scots who take all their money, that it is Scotland that keeps England down. If we piss them off enough, maybe, they will demand Scotland has another referendum. I appreciate that I am thinking way out of the box but why not, something has to give, and the SNP are doing jack about independence anyway. Maybe the answer to our independence is in fact the English, maybe we need to encourage their shift to the right, encourage them to find their hidden Englishness, let them see they can have Tory rule forever, shit they could do away with the vote full stop and let their King Charles rule.

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12 Responses to Have we got it all wrong, maybe we should also be campaigning for English independence!

  1. Black Rab says:

    I don’t think your thinking is so out of the box as you may think Grumpy. I have always preferred that England resile themselves from the UK. It would humiliate the Unionists to their core to realise their love affair with England is a fantasy, and no realistic reason to despise the Yes voting population for that outcome.
    I would die laughing though.

    • Black Rab

      The more they drift right the more extreme their thinking will become. They are stuck in the past thinking about an England that has never existed, we need to exploit that and encourage them to that thinking. I don’t care if it causes problems for them internally because at the end of the day Scotland has to be the priority. We cannot allow the posh in England, who never ever suffer like the rest of us, to take us down with them. The budget yesterday tells you all you need to know with an equally weak response from Sturgeon and her gender warriors. We have got to get our arse in gear and soon.

      Thanks for commenting.

  2. duncanio says:

    I did think about the idea of the English going for ‘Independence’ from the UK some while back but, like you, I realised that the British establishment wouldn’t countenance the idea due to:

    Natural Resources
    Deep water port facilities for housing nuclear weaponry
    Forfeiture of permanent seat on UN Security Council
    Geopolitical importance to NATO
    Loss of international prestige
    Customs and Excise revenue from selected specialised industries e.g. whisky

    Once the English masses understood that they would not be so keen to separate from Scotland. (It’s a good, cheap and conveniently adjacent holiday destination too – all that unpopulated land).

    From a Scottish perspective it would be damaging for us psychologically if we relied on the English to end the British Union:

    We would not value our freedom. Look at the Irish – they recently fought and died for their freedom, and they cherish their independence. If you ask an Irish person about their country about rejoining the UK, or if they consider that they really ‘British’, always remember to duck as you pose the question!

    I’m not advocating violence, but we do need to assert our rights. It is important HOW we take back our self-government not just that we do it.

    We also need to ensure that our own Scottish population want their freedom i.e. that we win the argument at home.

    Some future English Nationalist government will jealously look Northwards at what we have and seek to take control again (as they have done over the last 1000 years), especially if they are skint and they need a nice little distraction to divert the English populace.

    You can be sure that if Scotland achieves Independence by default, or is ‘given’ its freedom, future English governments with expansionist aspirations will find the Scots a pushover if we ourselves don’t value our nation-statehood such that we would tenaciously and with utter determination defend that status.

    • Duncanio

      I’m not so sure, Scotland takes too long to change. We are not cowards but are too cautious and too colonised. I think if England were to vote for its own independence it would be the kick up the arse that we need in many ways. Scotland in the EU would also bring with it strength, even if not everyone wants to be a part of it. Natural resources would also bring strength and once Scots understood that I think we would be fine just like any other normal country. The problem being we are currently not part of a normal union; England has lost its collective mind and we need to encourage that to continue as they are on a slow slide to irrelevance, they just don’t see it yet so we need to take advantage of their delusion while we can.

      Thanks for commenting.

  3. panda paws says:

    “If Scotland becomes independent the Scots will become a good deal poorer. But the English, who have supported Scotland for years, will become a good deal richer. (Vernon Colemon English Blogger)”

    One of the great joys of independence (supposing we see it in my lifetime) will be the look on folk like Vernon’s faces when they realise just who was subsiding whom. However, I agree with you, one of the levers we have to use is to get the English nationalists so riled up about Scotland they try to force Westminster to in their words “cut us loose”. Of course, Westminster knowing the truth will try to ignore this, but they risk losing votes if they don’t agree or come clean. Of course, if they come clean, everyone in Scotland will realise we are being rinsed and always have been whilst they lied to us. That should help the Yes vote assuming we have a party at all interested in indy in power. A girl can dream!

    • PP

      I do think we need to pile the pressure on them I really do. England is drifting more right by the day, it is their choice of course but we don’t have to sink with them, however we can encourage their fantasies if it moves us closer to becoming a normal nation like the rest of the normal nations in the world, England not being one of them. The budget yesterday should tell everyone in Scotland what is to come, total neo liberal economy like the Americans with levels of poverty that will make our current levels seem like paradise. We need to encourage the English to throw us out, or at the very least keep sowing their own internal division. Why not, they have been playing that game with us for hundreds of years, payback time if the SNP have the guts, which of course they won’t.

      Thanks for commenting.

  4. lorncal says:

    That’s it, Grumpy, the elites in England know the score, but the ‘proles’ don’t. They believe we are a burden, just as they believed that the EU was robbing the UK blind. The elites knew getting out was all about the continued non-regulation of financial services. Cue the bankers’ bonuses just as expected. The ordinary English people, their heads full of anti Scottish propaganda, are the ones that we need to target. However, running parallel to that, we must continue the fight for Scottish independence.

    • lorncal

      We can do both if the SNP can get off their unionist arse and if they won’t then we need to move them on at the first opportunity. England has lost its collective mind, we need to encourage that division to continue, they will eat themselves and we don’t have to sink with them. Too many Scots are too cautious, colonized, and the rest greedy. It’s time we fought on two fronts to force Scots to make a choice between the neo-liberal hell of the final Thatcher solution or the hope of something different. For that we need the English to implode, we should encourage that, what do we have to lose anymore.

      Thanks for commenting.

  5. GM says:

    He was the BBC journalist who made the promotional video for Vote No Borders. The so called grass roots unionist campaign. The whole thing was a deception. Cannae go the boy at all.

    I’mpast the stage of grasping at anything that gives us a bit of hope. Sturgeon and her tosser clique need to go before anything happens. Do I think the Englsih will go for their independence? Only if they can keep control of our resources and sea area and continue the colonisation of Scotland.

    • GM

      Sturgeon has a year at best, no referendum next year and no excuse will work. I know a few SNP members who are clear that it is last chance saloon for Sturgeon and her gender warriors. It has taken them to long to see what we saw years ago but they are getting there. England has lost its collective mind as it gets ready for the final part of the Thatcher solution, it will all end in tears for them so we should encourage their delusion as much as we can. It might be our best hope, England eats itself alive and goers down in flames, that might well be enough to get enough Scots off their arse to act, even if it doesn’t think of the fun watching the English tear themselves apart as they find themselves, if we are going to go down with them then lets have some fun on the way down.

      Thanks for commenting.

      • GM says:

        I take your point and it was a hopeful article. There is always something to take from the current state of affairs in that might lead to an awakening further down the line. The balance is between the punter opinion shifting against established power and people in the pay of it and how much we lose that won’t be easily recoverable in terms of rights and resources while that process takes place.

        Do you think people are beginning to see through the Sturgeon regime?.

        • GM

          I do think that Sturgeon is running out of time, as are the SNP and when they fail to deliver next year it will focus the minds of more people especially as England embarks on Thatchers final solution. If that doesn’t wake up people then nothing ever will and we will just have to accept there is no Scotland. I’m not giving up though.

          Thanks for commenting.

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