pleb·is·cite
NOUN
the direct vote of all the members of an electorate on an important public question such as a change in the constitution:
Professor Ciaran Martin the former civil servant who negotiated the 2014 Scottish independence vote said the Scottish government would be unlikely to win a legal challenge against the UK Government in their bid for a second referendum. Absolutely fine with me in every shape or form even if it means waiting until the 2024 General Election or the Holyrood 2026 Elections for a lot of reasons.
Barrhead Boy has covered plebiscite elections in a few posts, and there are other avenues as well available, but I cannot see how a plebiscite election, especially one held at a general election and with clear manifesto commitments from all of the independence parties could be denied if they win the majority of seats on that mandate, how this method could not be both legal and recognised by the international community. Martin goes on to say that in the case of a consultative referendum that
“The UK Government and the Unionist parties could say we’re not going to take part. They could say we don’t care what the result of this sham referendum is: we’re not going to facilitate independence”
Would they in a general election? I very much doubt it so why don’t we just test the referendum in the courts as soon as possible, if that is the method that Sturgeon is determined to follow, wrongly in my opinion as I have said many times in this blog, but let’s get on the front foot. I appreciate that many of us feel that Sturgeon just doesn’t have the guts to go down this road right now, but Sturgeon is running out of time and out of carrots.
Wings Over Scotland was of course correct in what he said the other day regarding what wasn’t announced by Sturgeon, she is hell bent on her gradual approach, but she is running out of time now, she knows it, we know it, the unionists know it, and Westminster know it. No matter what the spittle drooling unionists say, or think, the question needs to be asked, and it will at some point.
grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com 
It all sounds to me like we’re being set up for a “Well, I tried… just vote SNP again and send Johnson a message that this democratic outrage can’t continue, etc, etc.”, with Blackford leading an equally pointless offensive in WM informing them that we won’t stand for it.
TBH the thought of a referendum the way things are right now scares me to death. If by some miracle it happened, the SNP will be trying to get over the line on Sturgeon’s personality. It’d all be about her, nobody else would get a look in. All the unionists have to do is mention Alex Salmond and get her off on a demented rant and that’s before they’ve looked at her shocking record in government. “Launch a newly-independent country when you can’t even launch a ferry?” for starters.
Dave
A referendum is just not going to happen at all or in any meaningful way in my opinion. I also think Sturgeon has put a noose around her neck now and if she does not deliver it is over for her or for the SNP in the medium term. A plebiscite has to be the way to go at the next GE in 24, I only hope the Tories don’t go early as that will definitely set things back but she has backed herself into a corner and no amount of carrots will be enough by the end of next year for many in the SNP and the wider movement. I do agree with you about a referendum, hold one next year we lose, or the Tories have some form of devo max question that kills indy for good if people and the stupid in the SNP agree to one.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
Of course, a really committed independence supporting leader would also be considering the nuclear approach as a last resort – resign as First Minister and use the pro-indy majority to block the election of a replacement for 28 days, leading to a forced Holyrood election as a plebescite. If this happened in tandem with all 48 SNP MPs resigning and forcing by-elections on the same basis they would have real authority to leave the UK.
LJ
I just don’t see the SNP under Sturgeon ever having the guts for something like that to be honest, they are gradualists and throw in the ignorance of still far too many Scots about the whole debate. I watched debate night and could not believe the ignorance of many in the audience it was unreal, how can so many people be so thick, colonized doesn’t even explain it.
Thanks for reading the blog and taking the time to comment.
Bruce
Don’t think it will happen, but, if it does, it will not be won. Self-preservation for this crowd might just prompt them to hold a plebiscitary election, but the problem there is that, although they might be relieved to lose the referendum, they would not wish to risk their careers in a plebiscitary election. However, having said that, it is the only way to go now, with a constitutional case as back-up, using the constitutional tools at our disposal. It is quite appalling and shameful that none of the work has been done by the SNP in the past eight years or so. Luckily, there are those out there who are doing the necessary work, who have been doing it all along. The big question is: will the SNP leadership listen this time? If they don’t, they will be hounded out of office. They should have remembered that the vast majority of their electorate are not ‘wokies’.
Lorncal
I think Sturgeon has now dug a big hole for herself next year that only a GE in 23 can save her with more carrots. If she doesn’t call a referendum then she is done I think now, she won’t be able to wiggle out of it. A plebiscite is the way to go, and given that the Tories will refuse a referendum, that they would win, because they are stupid, the only option will be for Sturgeon to say the next GE is a plebiscite and if she doesn’t she is done in my opinion. I think enough members and the yes community will have had it I really do.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
Reblogged this on Ramblings of a now 60+ Female.
If the Unionist don’t want to take part then the question need to change to “Do you want to remain part of the UK” I don’t have a problem with the question I know I will be voting for Independence no matter what the question is.
If we hold a plebicite or a referendum, UDI or just end the treaty of Union I’m just want the union and the mandates we’ve given the SNP to be honored.
100%YES
I think Sturgeon has dug a hole for herself now to be honest, if she doesn’t make a real move next year either way I think it will be over for her and the SNP in some ways as I think people will leave the party, maybe not a lot but some will. I also don’t agree with a referendum personally, plebiscite for me all the way, but then saying that I would accept anything I think now to be honest and the UK is a shit show isn’t it.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
If enough people started demonstrating with “Sturgeon Out” posters and chants, I think it she’d have a full scale “imposter syndrome” meltdown. Look at her response to the “Women won’t Wheesht” demo, when the crowd booed at every mention of her name – she ran off to Priti Patel to get demonstrations banned from the Parliament grounds!
Gordon
She is a sensitive soul that’s for sure but she has dug that hole bigger for herself and if she doesn’t make a move by the end of next year she is toast I suspect. I would be happy to wait now until 2024 and make the GE a plebiscite election because the Tories will never agree to a referendum because they are as thick as even though if they said yeah have one this October they would win and kill indy for the next 30 years.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
Surplus “it” there, sorry
for me it needs to be a majority of votes not a majority of seats, I believe in PR so I need to be consisitent and apply it across the Board
Anon
I agree with PR as well but the vote has to take place within the system we currently have but if Scotland were to become independent then one of the first things I would want to see was the introduction of PR for all elections, it is by far the most democratic voting system.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce