Nicola Sturgeon basically implied she would not work with Alex Salmond yesterday in the next independence campaign – I really hope that is the case, that Nicola Sturgeon in her bitterness or whatever it is means she goes it alone, Lesley Riddoch on her podcast noted that it looks like the SNP and the Scottish Greens will go it alone in any future campaign and that the YES movement has been cut adrift. I have been arguing for a long time that the YES community had to keep the SNP away from the next campaign at the grass roots and if that is the case, if Sturgeon is going it alone, then good because if we are to win our independence then it will be won in our communities by the people in the street not by the politicians, people being convinced of the arguments by their neighbors, family, and friends.
We need the SNP/Greens to put in place the mechanisms to make either a referendum or a plebiscite election happen, there is no doubt about that, they are the means to make it happen right now, we all understand that, but the debate won’t be won by White Papers, or any other papers for that matter, it will only be won by talking to the people. Of course the politicians have a role to play in the debate, there are many who can win the arguments like Alex Salmond, like Joanna Cherry, the political parties have their role to play also, but let them do it themselves on their terms of reference, the YES Community where the activists are locally, where the passion is, they know best what the approach should be in their own areas.
It would be good if the wider YES Community can have some form of way to meet at a more national strategic level if possible, to share best practice, to share ideas and resources, but it is not a must, however I am sure some will be able to do that in some way and that would be a good thing I suspect.
I appreciate that yesterday was just a half carrot, there was no date set, no explanation as to how a referendum happens when our Westminster colonizers refuse Sturgeon her Section 30 agreement to even hold a vote. We know that the media and vomiting unionists will focus on the border, on the currency, on pensions , on fear but let them. Nothing is more frightening that what we are all experiencing right now being a part of the UK, being at the mercy of a scumbag Tory Government that we did not elect.
The next campaign is about vision, it is about a fairer Scotland but it is also about the people v the establishment, it is about where power lies, it is about living in a Scotland for all and not the few and vested interests. The next campaign is about hope over fear and we are up against it from day one, Better Together have never stopped campaigning, but right now is our best chance. The right wing Tory nightmare of all colors are breaking international laws, breaking treaties with the EU, they are breaking our society, they are beholden to the 1%, they give with one hand and take more with the one behind their back. They will lie and they will cheat with the help of their Scottish unionist servants and those suffering from Jockholme Syndrome but you know what, fine, been like that since 1707 and nothing has changed.
The return of all sovereignty to Scotland can be won, but it will be won in our communities by the people who live, work, raise a family, and die in them not by the politicians or the political parties. It is up to us.
grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com 
Sturgeon doing what she is best at lying and deceiving deviation. Of course she hers favourite word is always there just out of sight LEGAl.We all know what that means, another half-hearted attempt at ASKING for a section 30 which she her knows full well is not required. Everything you state is right, we must separate ourselves from Sturgeon and her gang of pretending Independence MPs and MSPs. For the leader of the government whose intent is independence she sure knows how to divide a cause. Saor Alba.
Lara
I have always thought that the yes community effort has to be separate from the political one and especially now given how useless the SNP are but saying that until there is an actual date for something it is just a half carrot really. I also think her reason for cutting the movement adrift is her bitterness towards Alex Salmond and that could back fire on her in the long run I suppose as people are starting to see through her.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
Reblogged this on Ramblings of a now 60+ Female.
Bravo Bruce! However I’m a bit worried that you might have to change the title of your blog to “Optimistic Scottish Man”. It doesn’t seem to have the same ring to it. What do you think?
Stuart
lol, nah the Grumpy is what the kids have grown up with. I do think that keeping both sides separate is a good thing though and not just because the SNP are pretty useless now I just really believe the best chance we have is if we do it ourselves with the resources we have. Better Together won’t find it so easy the next time if or when a proper campaign starts.
Thank for commenting.
Bruce
I agree that we need to inspire our own folk by what is possible in a Scotland with restored full self-government but even more than that we also need to scare the bajesus out of them if we stay in the UK.
Current economic woes:
• Inflation – it’s going higher so watch out, middle class, for your savings
• Cost of living – it’s going to be more expensive
• Bills – you think they are high now, just wait till next winter
• Pensions – lowest in western Europe and will go lower in real terms
• Foodbanks – there will be more of these with less items in stock
And let’s not forget the broken promises from 2014:
• EU Gurarantee v Brexit
• HMRC Jobs v Cumbernauld Closures
• T8 Clydebuilt Frigates: 13 Contracts v 8 Orders
• The Vow v EVEL
• Home Rule/Federlaism/DevoMax v Smith Commission whitewash
We need to have our own version of Project Fear.
Duncanio
Totally agree and we need to get the folk in the schemes who normal don’t vote registered and understanding that they actually have nothing to lose as continued Tory rule will just strip them of more of their poverty starvation support and services anyway. I appreciate we can’t do much until there is some kind of date but if bitter Sturgeon is cutting the yes community adrift because her ego can’t work with AS then I am all for it, if we are going to win any future campaign we need to do it ourselves.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
I agree with most of what you write & say, Bruce. We don’t all need to be pally to work for an independent Scotland. Its perfectly possible to talk to people, have stalls etc. without including, using or working alongside a party we don’t respect (sorry but I don’t respect a party that blocks constituents, writes nasty tweets about others, or tries to jail so many Indy supporters, ie Dave Llewellyn, or erase women out of society). Our job is simply to remind people that Scotland can be fully Independent, grow & become a good, socially caring country in its own right, that treats people with respect. Our job will be to convince people Scotland is quite capable of working like any other independent country.
Where we differ is that I don’t believe SNP & Scotgov are the ONLY vehicle to take us to Indy. And I believe Scotgov realise that the truth is out there now – SCOTS ARE SOVEREIGN as per the Claim of Right. I truly believe that is one of the reasons Sturgeon is now talking of Indy – because Sara Salyers’ work has proved that we can circumvent HR in an effort to get Independence if that becomes necessary, SSRG is holding Conferences & inviting the leaders of communities, unions, churches etc & thus, SNP will lose control of the Indy narrative – and thus the carrot & stick they use to control their voters, will be useless! The only way they can keep their credibility now is to declare a date for Indy and look like it is THEIRS to control. Now I’m not saying that we can’t or shouldn’t work together. I’m simply saying I believe that Sara’s route to Independence, declaring SALVO & thus sacking WM & potentially HR if they’re not willing to take us out of the union, could well have been the motivation for this sudden ‘we’re having Indy’ declaration. Whatever the cause was, SSRG will still be holding their Conferences, informing the people of THEIR power to make Indy happen, and will be making it clear that we don’t need politicians OR parties to do it. That’s the truth of the matter. It just needs someone elected to take our case to the UN, with the necessary evidence which is in SSRG’s possession, to prove Scotland has a Constitution & the documents preceding the signing of the ToU, declares Scots can leave the union & go their own way, should they choose to do so. I believe it’s put the wind up SNP. And if SNP do not now take control of the Indy initiative, they’re lose their ‘carrot’ & their power, completely.
But anyway – IF this is truly the start of a campaign (and I’ll have to see a date before I believe this)… I think the main Indy movement will just work away doing what they can. Sturgeon has made clear she won’t ‘unite’ the party, Wishart has made it abundantly clear what he thinks of other Indy parties & so I think we have to just accept they are not going to be in it to win it. We will have to do the heavy lifting over this. But it’s for us, for our families, our communities & benefits the whole of Scotland so we’ll do it in spite of the ‘other party’. I don’t think anyone will refuse to do what has to be done to win our Independence.
Katie
The work of SSG is very impressive I just don’t see the SNP ever going down that road or the courts ever supporting it either irrespective of what Scotland believes it’s constitution says and wither it still exists or not to be honest but I am expert. I hope that when or if any campaign starts that Sturgeon does stay well clear, the politicians will only lose any future vote from the yes side, it needs to be won by the people and our communities or we can never win I don’t think. Wishart was at it again yesterday with his bile towards Alba, don’t know what the clown is trying to achieve at all as it is not a good look and I know a few SNP members who despise him and wish he was gone. We are still playing the waiting game as you said but hopefully the pressure is building on Sturgeon as she digs that hole deeper and deeper.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
I know, Bruce, it’s all a legal mess, isn’t it? And before the advent of SSRG & SALVO, I’d have said the same as you re Court being the inevitable end to the dispute. But… The SNP HAVE used the Claim of Right argument before. Why they left it behind, decided not to take it further, I have no idea (except I don’t think they really want Independence so why bother with the CoR except as a stick to slap bozo with)…
My take on the UK Court supporting the Claim of Right is that there would be some considerable argument for quite a very long time if it were to go there. But I don’t believe the Claim of Right actually has to be taken to a UK Court. The documents are to be taken to the UN Court where THEY, an unbiased, neutral Court, will decide whether they can be accepted as Law. The Constitutional Lawyers & experts at SSRG truly believe they have an excellent case – along with Prof Marc Waller, who is an eminent & expert Constitutional Agent. His credentials are VERY impressive & I would believe him before I’d believe bozo’s lot. And Prof Weller believes we have a right to hold a Ref. (I don’t want a Ref but if it does the job, being backed by people like Prof Weller, then… okay – Ref it is! I don’t care HOW we get it.
https://www.lcil.cam.ac.uk/blog/could-scotland-stage-independence-referendum-without-uk-approval-what-law-says-prof-marc-weller
Weller has stated the case believing Scotland will be going into the EU, so a lot of what he saw as ‘sticky points’, where possible problems might be encountered, are based on that premise. But the thing is – we left EU thru Brexit, it’s been awhile & we no longer fit the criteria as we would have had we left the UK union earlier. So a lot of those ‘problems’ are now non-starters. We aren’t even sure we want to return to the EU now, given EFTA & EEA have ALREADY SAID we can join them as soon as we are able to sign our own International agreements. So those sticky bits are now GONE.
He also talks of Scotland’s constitutional right to leave, using the UK Constitution as the document that determines Scotland’s right to leave. What he HAS NOT talked of – perhaps because he doesn’t know of – SCOTLAND’S CONSTITUTION which was written PRIOR to the signing of the ToU and thus has precedence in Int’l law. In’tl law supersedes domestic law. OUR Constitution will have to be accepted as bona fide before the UK constitution, which is in effect, the English Constitution. They had their Constitution. We had ours. And Scots have every right to have THEIR Constitution considered as valid as England’s. And given we had ours before the signing of the ToU and it was NEVER TERMINATED, it is just as valid a document TODAY by which the Scots are supposed to be treated as AN EQUAL part of the union. And those documents are going to be taken to the UN to be validated by them (the Claim of Right has already been validated & ratified by the WM Parl in 2018!)
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-04/debates/18070455000001/ClaimOfRightForScotland
(Some lovely person on Twitter went to the trouble of finding this and I can’t remember who it was, but thank you again!)
Anyway – my POINT! (I know! Took me long enough!) There are issues in Weller’s argument that he says could be sticking points but 1) the EU question is, well… OUT of the question for the foreseeable future so is of no importance. And 2), the question of what the UK constitution says, can be invalidated as our own is older, has never been terminated & has ALWAYS been in effect. WM just made sure we didn’t know about it so we couldn’t use it to tell them to jog on! So that too is a non-starter now & the rest of his thoughts would suggest he’d see NO REASON that a REF & potential leaving UK would not be legal. So it WON’T MATTER what WM thinks about our Constitution or our other documents. With UN backing our claim, we just go ahead AND LEAVE. It makes no difference what bozo thinks. If they don’t want to negotiate, they get no share of anything of OURS – and we have a lot more than they do! So they LOSE a lot more than we do!
So… I think with those problems not insurmountable & with the UN position on Colonies being allowed to leave the dominant country, we can see light at the end of the tunnel. The thing is – will Sturgeon bypass WM & UK Courts & go straight to UN? I hae ma doots!!
But that’s where SSRG & SALVO come in. Because, as I say, they are currently collecting & collating all their documents with a view to doing just that – bypassing UK Courts & going straight to the top.
I understand your inability to accept that it can happen without going to the UK Courts where Scots case will be flung out. But what I’m trying to say in a long-winded kind of way is that it may very well not be necessary to go to UK Courts. If only the Selfie Queen would give us a hint on DATE & what the plan is, it would make things so much clearer so we could work on a way round the problems. She isn’t giving us information about the method & intends to not let people like SSRG, SALVO, or CommonWeal or Business for Scotland or anyone else work on them (so we have to continue doing that ourselves). Just her wee tranny people who only want into women’s spaces… and I certainly don’t have any faith in THEM to get us to Indy!
Katie
Thanks for all of the information and I will check it out. I am certainly no expert that is for sure but I just don’t think the current SNP would ever take a route that is as complicated as challenging the Treaty of Union, or of using Scotland’s historic rights that may still be in existence. The Courts in the UK I just don’t trust, I never have. When has the Courts ever found substantially for anyone in this country that isn’t part of the system or wealthy/powerful, the law protects those with money who can afford the law, the rest of us get shafted big time all the time because we get the law we can afford. I am not so sure that Scotland is even ready yet to vote for independence to be honest, I appreciate we need a campaign to galvanise the masses but right now the levels of ignorance, the refusal to accept the truth, and the state of Scotland I just think makes the challenge difficult and probably exactly what the SNP keep praying for. Just a total mess and all of Sturgeon’s making in my opinion.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce