If true where do we go from here?

Saw this article tonight and if true then the SNP are really painting themselves into a corner.

This follows on from my blog yesterday I suppose It’s a matter of principle and trust

I think many people would see such a move as a betrayal to be honest and a mistake. Some are talking about this on Twitter

Removing a consultative referendum, if true, would be a huge mistake for the SNP and potentially the final straw for many if as expected the Tories, with support from the British Unionists, refuse a section 30 order. Now we know from Wings that the headline is rarely the truth but headlines are all that many see at times.

Nicole is quoted saying Asked later by reporters if it was a possibility she could hold a Catalan-style referendum without the permission of Westminster, the First Minister said: “No, I am not open to that possibility.” You can read the article here just ignore the rabid Brit Nat comments of ignorance.

However this won’t go down well at all I suspect with many.

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15 Responses to If true where do we go from here?

  1. Anonymous says:

    We are falling into the next unionist trap, starting to argue and disagree
    IN FACT DIONG THE UNIONIST JOB FOR THEM SPLITING THE YES MOVEMENT
    IT WILL TAKE PLACE BUT IT NEEDS TO BE IN OUR TIME NOT ANY UNIOINIST TRAP

    • Anon
      I hope people are not arguing. There will always be disagreement and I think that is healthy in politics. I do think the SNP are not actually helping and if the article is true then I don’t understand why anyone would do that because you just leave the door open for the British to say no forever and you then lose the mandate and it is over for a long time.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  2. 100%Yes says:

    I remember a cetain woman saying Independence isn’t about one person, well Bruce, it seems like it is.

    • 100%Yes
      If this is how it turns out then I don’t I understand why you would willingly close a potential avenue. We could all be wrong and there is a cunning plan but I don’t think there is, I think the Pete Wisharts of the party have won the slow creep approach and for me that may well turn out to be a huge mistake.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  3. Alan says:

    Lest we forget… the “catalan-style referendum” failed. The unionist voters boycotted it and they sent in police forces from other parts of the union to disrupt it. The leader who triggered it is in political exile and his colleagues have been in prison since. The prospects of Catalan independence happening remains low.

    Of course Sturgeon doesn’t want any of that to happen.

    This is painful reading too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence#Post-referendum_polling

    You can see that the last time Yes led the polls was… immediately before Sturgeon made her first section 30 request. Since then, it’s not been positive.

    Only 22 days more to go.

    • Alan says:

      It wouldn’t surprise me if all those voices screaming betrayal are actually agent provocateurs working for MI5 or something like that. They WANT the SNP to overreach whilst Yes’d lose a second referendum. That would lock us into Brexit Britain for many more years.

    • 100%Yes says:

      Alan there is a way to prevent the unioist from not showing up on polling day, change the question to (do you want to remain part of the UK). They wouldn’t dare not show up on the day of the vote.

      • Alan says:

        That might provoke a high turnout of unionists, but it might not if there was still an official boycott amid a backdrop of illegitimacy. It would be quite a risky question, as allowing British unionists to claim and deploy the ‘remain’ label in Scotland is counterproductive if your goal is Scottish independence.

    • Alan
      Fair point although the U.K. don’t really have any laws that would fit in the same way. I think a consultative referendum, if held, would require UN and EU support and recognition but no idea about the legal aspects of that at all.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  4. bjsalba says:

    In my opinion a consultative referendum would be a waste of time effort and money. Westminster would just brush it aside.

    Much better to go the legal route up the chain (to ECHR if needs be).

    • bjsalba
      I don’t think the ECHR will apply after the end of March but not sure. If the UN and EU recognised a consultative referendum that would force the UKs hand but to write it off is a mistake for me. We need to keep all the options open in my opinion.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  5. Sensible Pro Yes says:

    she is right to do this. Even if it is “consultative” (which is a pile of crap because legally ALL referenda are consultative in the UK as they ought to be, we live in representative democracy), the no camp will boycott it and it will be laughed out of any court. You’d say the same for any vote that resulted in a yes side boycott.

    It needs to be done legally and correct, there is no way back from that.

    • SPY
      I think it’s a mistake to rule it out. It may have been the Bernie that forced an officially binding agreement but if that option is taken off the table that makes yes weaker in my opinion.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  6. Alan Morrison says:

    Despite my post yesterday, I still trust Nicola for the present and she is clearly by far the most talented political leader in the UK – not that there is much competition. I think she needs to politely and formally ask for another section 30 order again, with a date set (in May) so that it can be definitely refused – not just shouldered aside by the ‘now is not the time’ phrase. Based on that definite refusal we have the Prime Minister refusing the Scottish people a democratic say in their future. So Nicola then goes on nationwide TV, explains the above and calls a Holyrood election (for April) that will not only elect MSPs for the next session but double as a Independence Referendum. All votes in the constituency ballot for an indiependent supporting candidate count as a Yes vote, votes for Unionists count as No and votes for undeclared candidates do not count in the referendum part. Similarly votes on first preferences only will count toward the referendum in the list vote. Finally Nicola gives the PM 48 hours to reverse the section order decision so we can have a referendum instead. The PM is then damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. Unionists cannot boycott or they lose all their MSPs. It is time that Nicola grabbed the initiative again like she did the day after the EU ref but lost it when May said ‘now is not the time’ and left her unsure how to respond.

    • Alan
      I think they will request one and it may be this year but it will be refused. I would personally go for the consultative referendum so it goes to court but to rule it out is folly for me. I think they will either call an election or wait until the next Holyrood one and seek another mandate, for me that would be too late by then and they may not get it.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

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