The People’s Vote : Will you vote?

As the vote on the Brexit deal edges closer we are seeing a little more mention of the so called people’s vote.

Now I personally think that the people’s vote is a nonsense if it doesn’t include an option to stay in the EU. The deal that Theresa Mayhem has agreed , by all accounts, is the worst deal possible. The question though for me is that I seriously doubt I would vote in a people’s vote on the deal as it feels pointless.

Now I do think, and I’ve said it from day one, that the plan has always been a no deal Brexit and nothing has happened to change my mind. I also think that a people’s vote to accept the deal, or parliament voting to accept the deal, will kill off independence in the medium to long term.

The only way to secure another Indy ref in my opinion is a no deal Brexit as was the leave vote. It’s horrible to think of the pain the country will have to go through but it will be the only way to indy2 in my opinion.

However, any people’s vote has to include the option to remain in the EU for the very purpose that another leave vote in England will make it abundantly clear to even the most fervent Scottish Britnat that Scotland has to leave the U.K. or it really is just a colony. A vote to remain in the EU, while killing independence in the near future, would at least be the sane choice.

But for me I just don’t think I would feel like voting in any vote on Mayhems deal, I am interested in what others think because I know a few folk who have said they won’t vote in a people’s vote.

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21 comments

  1. MAUREEN Potter

    If a People’s Vote is allowed, the Remain must be on the paper. If not there has to be a campaign for a massive spoiled paper’s result which annoys me but seems the only alternative. I know a Remain win will possibly damage Indy 2 but a Leave winepukd enhance Indy 2! It is a big gamble!

    • grumpyscottishman

      Maureen
      It is a massive risk either way, I agree with you there. I’m not so sure there will be a vote anyway and if there were I don’t think remain would on the ballot. I really do think that the Tories want a no deal Brexit and have done from the start, same as I think May voted leave and just won’t say it. A leave vote I agree would focus the minds of many no voters and would enhance Indy I imagine and a remain vote would damage it. It’s such a mess and who really knows what is going to happen. I am still not sure if I would vote in any people’s vote or not.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  2. MAUREEN Potter

    It should say a Leave win would enhance Indy 2! Sorry about the muddled text but blame my iPad which is behaving strangely! Probably affected by Brexit! 😱

  3. Brian McGowan

    If another referendum on EU membership is to take place, it must include an option for Scotland to remain if it votes in the same way as last time. That should be the condition for the Scotgov agreeing with WM to Scotland’s participation. In addition there must also be agreement up front that if Scotland votes to stay (in the EU) and England votes to leave, then a timetable for separation (between Scotland and England) should be made into a legal agreement beforehand. The principle that Scotland be an independent country from whatever date deemed appropriate by Scotgov should also be agreed beforehand.
    Otherwise we should decline to participate in a second EU referendum.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Brian
      I don’t disagree with you at all but Westminster would never ever go for it. They view the vote as a U.K. vote when we all know it was an England vote. Scotland will always get shafted and still too many think that’s ok. I still suspect we will leave with no deal, May is seemingly saying that the U.K. could remain in the EU if her deal is rejected. It’s a mess but if the U.K. remains Indy is dead for a long time and the SNP will regret not moving sooner. If there is a vote I don’t know if I will vote if it’s on Mays deal as I don’t see the point.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

      • Brian

        Thanks Bruce, but here we go again – “WM would never go for it”. We’re always in the position of asking for somebody’s permission. If that continues, we will never get independence.
        ‘Spoiling’ papers does nothing.
        I do not think for one second that May wants anything else but a “no deal” Brexit, no matter her claims.

        • grumpyscottishman

          Brian
          I totally agree with your sentiment, I am someone (of the few) who would be happy to declare UDI if Westminster dares to block another referendum but the SNP have said they would never go for it and the the EU/UN etc would never recognise it and there lies both the problem and the recognition that we, the people, are just pawns to be used. So all we really have is protest, we are not a violent people no matter how far we are pushed, and I would never want to see that personally, but if people are pushed far enough you never know but lets just hoe the SNP grow a pair and the Scots who soft suffers of jockholme syndrome wake up.

          Thanks for commenting.
          Bruce

          • Brian

            Thanks Bruce – yes, I get it, but . . . there would be absolutely no point in Scotland participating in another EU referendum if our result will not be respected. I think that would be a principled position for the SG to take, and is one it that reflects equally fairly on both Remain and Leave voters.
            It should not leave it to us to “abstain” or spoil our papers.

            • Anonymous

              Brian
              Angus MacNeil tweeted today implying that the SNP have missed the boat with the way things are developing and I could not agree more, we are running out of time and it’s not looking good. Any vote from Scotland will not be respected as you say so why are we fluffing about playing their games.

              Thanks for commenting.
              Bruce

  4. Alan Drew

    If it’s a straight re-run of the 2016 referendum, it’s essential to vote. If the overall UK result is still Leave, Scotland would do well to get two million votes cast for remain with less than a million for leave(ie, widen the difference). This also applies to a referendum between remain/may’s deal.

    If it’s between deal / no deal, I would spoil my ballot and write REMAIN as clearly as possible. It may be pointless, but if a million Scots spoiled their ballots in this exact way, it’d be noticed.

    There might be a two question referendum. These are more complex and will require slightly different strategies.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Alan
      I don’t think any vote will be a re run of the last one, or I would certainly be surprised. I’m of a mind that a vote won’t happen anyway but I like your idea of spoiling the paper if need be. The SNP I think have made a mistake but I am certainly no expert. I don’t think anyone knows what will happen any more
      to be honest. It’s such a mess but I think many in England still want to leave. If the U.K. remains in the EU though Indy is dead for a long time, interesting times.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  5. Sianna

    No, I wont. Nor will my husband, who’s Belgian. Due to Brexit kicking in, in March, his Belgian paid lifetime awarded disability benefit ends. Because, for him to receive an EU paid benefit he has to reside IN an EU country, and England is ensuring Scotland will be hauled out with them. The highest Belgian authorities have advised us to leave if we’ve to keep our only income. Does anyone think I want to leave my native land? I’m 57. Born, bred, lived and worked here all my fecking life. England is doing this, to us. Another vote for Europe? And if Remain carries the day? We’ll STILL be stuck in the worst Union of all, the one that’s now openly xenophobic, racist, A country where the DWP, supposed to provide support for the most vulnerable, have actively murdered those same vulnerable in countless numbers by sanction. If Scotland doesn’t get up off her fecking knees, find her backbone, and get OUT of this Union, we WILL go down with England. We will. And don’t say to me “But the SNP haven’t fired the starting gun yet/they know best” because we’ve been told time and time again, “Scotland will have independence when the PEOPLE who are Sovereign want it”. Ignore the lies that there isn’t enough support. They ARE lies, nae mair than that. And fight for our country. If you don’t, I’ll die in a land not my own never having seen my bairns or grandbairns again, others like me will be in the same boat, and you who won’t fight? You’ll be English. Nothing less. It isn’t a People’s Vote we should be demanding. It’s independence.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Sianna
      I can’t even remotely imagine what you and your husband are going through and I am really sorry that you are. I’m not sure there will be another vote to be honest, I will be surprised if there is one but if there is then it has to include a remain option or it means nothing. I totally agree with you that too many Scots are on their knees and we have a high number of others from other parts of the U.K. who voted no in 2014 and will again. EU citizens won’t get to vote in the next Indy ref and that is down to the SNP leaving things too late in my opinion, their strategy has made it more difficult for yes to win and we will live to regret that. Any vote on Mays deal is not something I see any point to at all, Parliament needs to get a grip and in particular Labour. They are cowards and should call a no confidence vote ASAP but won’t, they are spineless. I think the SNP Westminster Group have done better than the Holyrood ones in at least trying to talk about independence. Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t appear to want to talk about it at all. Either way it’s a shambles and will get worse no doubt. Who knows what will happen.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  6. Billy

    i think if we spoil ballot papers or don’t vote we will be playing into brexiteers hands because they will ignore spoiled papers claim leave numbers have gone up proves scottish people had a change of heart and voted to leave along with the rest of britain/england only way is to take part if it happens but vote remain in larger numbers to highlight the fact scotland still wants to remain if i remember correctly the irish went down this road before and voted to remain and are prospering in the eu and if remain is not on the ballot paper fuck em have our indy ref and we will vote leave.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Billy
      I think spoilt ballots are announced at any election so it could be a statement if enough people did it, a protest if you a million and a pretty strong one. I don’t think there will be a vote, certainly it would take an amendment from parliament that forces the government to have one and that would be difficult to get through. The SNP are in a difficult position because any vote to remain in the EU kills Indy for a long time I suspect. The best call would be a general election where the SNP can make a case for independence and get the ball moving but I’m not convinced they want to do that until they have a majority in the polls which I don’t think will happen either. We need to be in a campaign for yes to make more in roads. What a shambles.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  7. g m

    No interest in a people’s vote at all. I want Scottish independence. A people’s vote not offering the option of staying in the EU would be typical British/English politics.

  8. Ricky

    I’ve tried writing a reply to this a few times and scrapped them all , because I honestly don’t know if I would vote in a so called people’s vote . It might lead to Scotland voting in larger numbers to stay in the EU say 75 – 80% , but in little England they have the blinkers on and see the EU as the problem , they want out and the damage it will cause doesn’t seem to bother or even enter their minds . The UK is over in all but name , how it ends , hell only knows .

    • grumpyscottishman

      Ricky
      Your opinion is very much valued by myself and very often on the money. I think any vote in England would be close but still a leave vote, just. I am thinking a no deal is getting more likely but I suppose no one really knows but like you I just want the U.K. over and hopefully the SNP get moving on this ASAP as I do fear we are running out of time.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

      • Ricky

        The only hope we have is if the SNP have something up their sleeves , but I’m beginning to think otherwise . They seem more intent on saving the UK rather than using the opportunity to push further and harder for independence . Gordon Ross over at Indycar had some news regarding Scotland’s place in the EU , seems that Germany think Scotland will be independent within the EU , plus a few people have stated that Scotland would be allowed straight back if we are forced to leave , no queue . Whatever has to happen , has to happen soon , because Westminster will close down devolution as an emergency measure and that will be the end of that .

        • grumpyscottishman

          Ricky
          I have seen a few things today on Twitter that indicate that Nicola Sturgeon will make an announcement soon, I really hope so as we are running out of time. I do think the EU would welcome an independent Scotland but I also can’t put behind me their actions during the last referendum, they needed to stay out of it but chose to aid the British state, that still sticks in my throat to be honest but something has to give soon or it will never happen.

          Thanks for commenting as always.
          Bruce

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