My opinion for what it’s worth

Yesterday and today have been interesting in so many ways, and while I think the SNP did the correct thing this afternoon in walking out of parliament, they have lost the momentum by returning this afternoon to take part in the EU Withdrawal Bill debate.

We know that just under half of Scottish voters want to see real change but that change is further away today than it has ever been. I can’t hide my frustration and anger at the situation I find our politics in. Today was a watershed moment and one that the SNP should I hope take a lot of advantage from, but I don’t think they will.

The simple reality for myself is that I am tired of the talking, I’m tired of watching my country being shat on and being a colony in all but name. I know we may never win independence but to continue to sit in Westminster gives credibility to a Parliament that I can’t and won’t recognise as being something I agree with. It’s the Parliament of England and the servants of the Union and I want no part in it anymore.

I don’t talk for anyone but myself but time is running out. I cannot stand the likes of Baillie, Rennie, Davidson, Leonard , May, Corbyn etc etc etc. They are not democrats, they are not only thick and vacuous they are the problem, but I have to accept that if the best the SNP can do is keep talking, then I don’t think I can support even that anymore.

The SNP have my support as the only vehicle to independence, but if they believe that talking within this shitty Union will take us to independence it won’t and that makes decisions more difficult. Looking at Westminster, and the people who sit in it, it’s hard to believe that this country functions at all.

I have never been one for giving up but the more I reflect the more I feel that playing by their rules is all they need to deny at least half of Scotland a voice. We can learn all the facts we like, we can be as nice to unionists and soft no’s as we like, we can march and shout, we can scream, but the simple reality is we live in a country that doesn’t care.

The SNP are the only game in town, I accept that and I understand that. However those who profess blind obedience to Nicola and the SNP might end up being disappointed if the party does not take more extreme measures. What will it take for more direct action, not violence, but the passive aggressive action of refusing to take part in their system because let’s be clear it is their system.

I believe that the more we play by their rules in their parliament their mandate to Lord it over us continues and nothing changes. By refusing to play their game by their rules removes that mandate, we are not Wales or Northern Ireland. We are Scotland and to continue to give Westminster legitimacy will be our undoing.

I don’t expect many of you to agree with my statement and many may think it’s defeatist but I cannot and will not continue to support talking without more direct action by our elected MPs. Those days are gone and as we have seen the last two days Westminster and the Unionists feel they can do what they like, when they like. By continuing to take part in their system we give them the power to treat us like the colony we have become, if that is our future then I need to seriously consider what it is I am actually passionate about.

I don’t think I have been as politically frustrated than I am today and seeing SNP MPs turn up in Westminster this afternoon, no matter how naive I may be, deflated me as much as the contempt we have been shown in the last 18 hours as a country. I just don’t know what it will take any more to wake enough people up, are we so broken.

Again this is just my opinion, I don’t expect any of you to agree with me as I said. Feelings are raw today and the anger I feel is the anger of someone who is coming to the realisation that change is not coming anytime soon as long as we give Westminster credibility. I don’t have any answers really but I know that today has left a bad taste from all sides that is not going away anytime soon.

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24 comments

  1. Helena Brown

    I am angry, and I know so many are. I have never wanted the SNP in Westminster, too many temptations. Look at the Labour Party. They succumb to the blandishments offered by the Establishment, so much so that they accepted their role as the “Establishment” here. I would have like the SNP not to have taken their seats but I understand their reasons. They have a portion of the population to bring on board, whether that works I have no idea. I want to know why we cannot revoke that blasted treaty. It was brought about with lies, threats and bribes. As for the Unionists in our Parliament, ask them why they are there after all they do nothing for their salaries other than shaft their constituents.

    • Bruce Hosie

      Helena
      I was really disappointed to see SNP MPs back in the chamber this afternoon and it makes their walk out look like a stunt. The talking is over for me now, they need a harder line. Playing by unionist fixed rules will get us no where. If people are convinced today about where Scotland stands then they never will and are a lost cause. The SNP have got to stop playing the game by Westminster rules and systems, they are designed to ensure English power and lets be honest that is what this is. We are a colony and I am sick of sick now, enough is enough.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

      • Helena Brown

        One thing you have to say for the walk out. People who were not convinced have changed their minds. Nothing that Scots like more is being telt what to do be the English. Last count fifteen hundred new members and for goodness sake Murray Foote.

        • Anonymous

          Helena
          I hope that many have as we have got to get out of this non-union as soon as possible. We are not wanted and I am sick of it now. I’ll be honest though if Scots don’t vote for independence the next time then there is no Scotland and we should all just be called England.

          Thanks for commenting.
          Bruce

    • Bruce Hosie

      A

      Thank you for the link. I am not saying jump to a referendum tomorrow but that a harder line has to be taken in Westminster now. We have to disrupt it, it’s time to really piss them off. I do think they will lose in the Courts and I don’t know enough about the Act of Union. I have read it but would not trust the courts either way. Time will tell but I am pissed right off.

      Thanks for commenting
      Bruce

  2. Ricky

    Everyone who puts democracy first is angry at what happened , the walkout highlighted what went on . It has been on every news bulletin and news channel all day , that is a good thing . It has also highlighted that the reporters who work for most of the big broadcasters , don’t know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Scotland . The Tories were shown for what they really are , and as for Labour , lots of people have ditched them for good after last night and today . No voters are coming over to our side , and the feeling of anger that we all have , will not go away . It will fuel us , use it to fuel yourself , Indycar with Gordon Ross , is right , eventually they will end the union themselves legally by thinking they have the upper hand , they don’t , that is the beauty of their ignorance and arrogance , they don’t see what’s right in front of them . Don’t let them beat you , don’t let them get you down , just point and laugh , we have a get out they don’t .

    • Anonymous

      Ricky
      I agree with what you say in the main but it has to be maintained and that can only be done with a continued high profile. I believe the only way to do that is to keep disrupting Westminster as much as possible and keep pissing off the Tories and unionist MPs to the extent that we are thrown out of parliament because the media will drop this as soon as they can. I hate the UK and always will, it is a disgusting construct designed to keep the few at the top and the rest at the bottom.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  3. andimac

    Bruce, you, like many of us, are justifiably furious about the treatment of Scotland and its Parliament by Westminster. I applauded the SNP walk-out but I can’t agree that they shouldn’t have returned. AS MPs, their job is to represent their constituents (no matter how difficult the Tories and their other lickspittle English/Norn Irish placemen make that). If the SNP MPs had continued to absent themselves from the Commons, the media would have merely used that as an excuse to portray them as only being interested in political stunts/independence and uncaring about their constituents. Gestures, even bold ones like the walk-out, cannot be used too often or they’ll lose their effect and merely be described as gesture politics.
    I think all of us would love to see independence as soon as we can get it but I honestly think if we had another referendum tomorrow we’d lose it. There are still far too many fearties in Scotland and far too many idiots who just don’t begin to comprehend what a colossal disaster Brexit will be, so they’ll still vote for the status quo.
    We need to go for independence when the time is right. We cannot afford to lose again. If we did, Scottish independence would be off the agenda for, I believe, decades – at least. I think if the SNP were to take what you describe as “extreme measures”, it could well be counter-productive. Once again, the mainstream media would inevitably use it to attack them – and remember, the mainstream media, repellent as it is, is where most of the NO brigade get their news. I think the one thing which will persuade the naysayers of their folly is when they actually see their money becoming worth less and less, their kids becoming unemployed, prices continually rising and the needs and aspirations of all Scots continuing to be sidelined and ignored by the Westminster cartel. It’s not surprising that so many of us are disheartened and would love a quick solution but we cannot afford to jump the gun. Bruce (your namesake) and the spider is doubtless just a legend but it carries an import message – don’t give up. Bannockburn was no legend and carries an equally important one – fight on the ground and at the time of your own choosing and never doubt that you will win.

    • Anonymous

      andimac
      I take on board what you are saying but I do think they should have stayed out for at least the whole day, I appreciate that we won’t all agree on that one and it will be a bit of mixed bag. I totally agree about the referendum, we would lose one tomorrow but we have got to the action to the next level as just talking and debate won’t get us where we want to be. We have got tp show the Westminster system for what it is and how it operates, there needs to be passive aggression that really gets under their noses and gets their true colours out there . That will help as we know they hold us in contempt but they do it so much on the fly for a lot of people, we need that out in the open all the time now. Westminster is pretty much anti-Scottish and pro English due to the make up of the parliament, we need the Scot yoons and soft no’s to see where we stand and it’s just slightly above or below dog shit.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  4. George

    I agree with all said here. But what is the way forward? No amount of talking to a tory government which looks as though it’ll never go and is prepared to give bribes at public expense to keep itself in power is going to do anything. Sadly I’m at a loss, short of UDI, I dinnae ken.

    • Anonymous

      George
      I think the talking has gotten us nowhere and while no doubt it will continue I would like to see more passive aggression like disruption to Westminster as much as possible. As I said to andi above we need to get Westminster’s contempt and dislike of Scotland out in the open as was shown yesterday. That will bring more people over and if none of that works and Westminster refuses a referendum then UDI is the only option.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

  5. roddy mackenzie

    I have been a member of the SNP for over 30 years and advocating Independence for even longer – don’t talk to me about being frustrated! Scots are canny people and if they dont vote for Independence in a legitamate referendum 2 years ago, they are highly unlikely to go along with UDI or anything else at this time. The Independence process has been gaining ground for a long long time and it has never been closer than it is now to achieving it. Dont mess it up now – unity is more important than it ever has been. Independence will be forever more and so another year or so is surely not too much to wait – there is no other way!

    • Anonymous

      roddy

      I totally appreciate your 30 years of struggle on all our behalf and your support of the SNP. I was a member of the SNP years ago but I don’t have the discipline to be a member of a party but I do think the talking, to a large degree, is over now. There needs to be a way to get over the finishing line and that I believe will only be when we can get Westminster to show their contempt every day and we should do everything we can to bring that about. I don’t think that the SNP would ever go with UDI but ti may well be the only option not that far off from now and I wouldn’t write it off to be honest. If another referendum is refused, and the options exhausted like the courts etc, then UDI would have to be the way or we just keep talking and Westminster keeps refusing and nothing changes and eventually independence just dies.

      Thanks for commenting.
      Bruce

      • East Neuker

        Bruce, I’m still not sure, after reading all of the above, what it is that you want independence foot soldiers like me to do right now. Like you, I’m not a member of any party, and like you I have been in the past but not now. Come another referendum I’ll be out there trying to convince, but I’m not sure how to answer your rallying cry right now.
        What are you doing? ( beyond your excellent blog of course)
        I mean, what can we do on the the ground that we are not already doing?

        • Bruce Hosie

          East Neuker
          I think the YES movement foot soldiers are amazing and I expect nothing more from you. I would like to see the SNP politicians do less talking and more action, esp disruption of the system as talking is getting us no where as the message doesn’t get out. Yesterday showed that to get that message out we need to be bold, they need to do more of that. I know when to use those tactics will be very difficult and it has showed that more direct passive aggressive action can work and we need to use it. That’s really what I want to see, I want to see Westminster challenged and played by their rules which are fixed to ensure the stays quo remains and serves the very few. As a YES foot soldier you are a legend and you have my respect and my thanks.

          Thanks for commenting.
          Bruce

      • Anonymous

        Bruce – all this talk of UDI is just a nonsense, it would be playing in to the hands of the unionists, would be very unlikely to work and should only be the very last resort. Even talking about UDI will be putting people off. There are other ways to go before that can even be thought about. We should never have gone down the path of a referendum, it was a mistake. A majority of MPs in a general election used to be the goal, and this route could still be used if Westminster refuse to legitimize a referendum. If we rush for a referendum and lose again (which is possible) the Independence movement will die and disappear for 25 – 30 years – calm down, it is so close.

        • greig12

          Declaring UDI when there is still a majority, albeit a small one that wants to remain in the Union is complete folly. Can you imagine the political capital the unionists and their media would make of this, not to mention the methods they would employ, supposedly fighting for the rights of the majority. It would be framed as a rebellion and dealt with as such. It would be taken from us in the name of democracy by the same hypocrites who are currently destroying democracy. They’re the side with the army remember.

          The way to win this is at the ballot box not through rash actions, regardless of the provocation. More extreme measures may ultimately prove necessary but it is vital in taking any action that we can evidence to the world that separation is what the majority of the Scottish people want. We cannot at present do that.

          Now is the time to keep the heid and box clever, because if we blow this one, we will be spectators as our country is taken from us.

          Apologies for repeating points made previously but sometimes things need repeating.

          • Bruce Hosie

            Greig12
            As I said to anon I don’t envisage UDI ever being used but we cannot and should not discount it or not discuss it. There may well come a time when it has to be seriously considered, esp as some believe the Supreme Court will over rule Holyrood and the Continuity Legislation and as Scottish Law is enshrined in the Acts of Union this situation will see Westminster breaking the Act thus making it, according to some, null and void. I think there are people looking at this scenario and if they are not they should be. The ballot box is always best but what do we do when Westminster and the Courts refuse the ballot box and don’t agree to another referendum and rule that a consultative one is illegal, do we just talk some more and have a moan. No I don’t think we can do nothing, the talk of UDI needs to be had and we need to consider that the nuclear option might just be required some day. Anything less and we are just a council and will just be treated as any other large city as far as Westminster and English MPs are concerned, it’s how they think because they see England and Britain as one and Scotland just a region.

            Thanks for commenting.
            Bruce

        • Bruce Hosie

          Anon
          I don’t expect that certainly the SNP would ever use IDI but it could come to it. What if Westminster decides to dissolve Holyrood which they can anytime they want, what if they decide a new Scotland Act that reduces Holyrood to nothing more than a large council what does the SNP do then, talk and march. It won’t be enough, we know that most Conservative down south feel that Scotland has both too much power and too much say, they can even begin to understand the irony of the fact that Holyrood has neither. They believe, because we have to a degree allowed them, that Scotland is no different from Manchester and should be treated no differently. UDI is extreme and I don’t see ever being used, but to not openly talk about it and debate it is equal folly and if that upsets soft no’s I really don’t care. They should be upset by poverty, sanctions, hunger and all of this in Scotland. If a discussion puts them off they will never be yes anyway.

          Thanks for commenting.
          Bruce

          • roddy

            Bruce – I admire your enthusiasm but your logic here is way off – soft no’s are the ones we need to keep on board – lots of people will be thinking of changing as the brexit shambles continues to show Westminster at its worst and we must use this to our advantage – time for cool heads!
            Soft no’s may well be upset by poverty, sanctions, huger, etc but they may not yet think that Independence is the answer – they will not likely be swayed by flag waving and talk of UDI – I know you are frustrated and angry – have a few drinks this weekend and chill.
            Roddy.

            • grumpyscottishman

              Roddy
              I don’t find soft no’s that I have spoken to are worried about things like UDI, they worry about the economy and pensions, employment and benefits. That is where the battle ground is for soft no;s if we are in a debate, what I think most people don’t like is Scotland being spoken down to and belittled. There are staunch no voters in my work and today a few were saying they are really pissed off with Westminster this week and saying that if Scotland is not in a union but just a member of the UK what is the point in bothering with the UK then. It will be a mixed bag across the board but I certainly would like to see more disruption and pushing the unionists to express their true feelings about Scotland as it will help a lot more than other things.

              Thanks for commenting.
              Bruce

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