The Independent published an interesting article today which if true could just rip the Tory Party apart.
It appears that Tory Ministers might not exactly be telling the truth and while that won’t surprise many of us it will piss off the back bench Euro sceptics like Reece Mogg no end and could, possibly will, result in a civil war within the party.
If the report is true then the U.K. will be stuck in a Norway type deal until at least 2021, that means obeying all the rules, paying a budget contribution similar to now with free movement of people intrinsic, and have no say. Now while an EFTA deal is fine with me it will go down like a lead brick with Tories on the back benches and I think must result in a leadership challenge.
All of this in time for the next Scottish elections and with a Labour Party which has no idea what it stands for or what it believes. Brexit is a disaster due to how it has been handled, and while I don’t look forward to the pain of it all, is it fair to say that anything that brings Scotland closer to self Government is good, is a price worth paying.
The Tories are the scum of the earth, they always have been, but this bunch are thick as shit Tories and with a little bit of luck they might, just might, rip each other to pieces so to speak.
grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com 
Regards to the Tories not telling the truth, I would be more surprised if they did and would we ever know they have. To be honest I am surprised even Norway signed up to this deal, to pay in follow all the rule and then have no say, when we become Independent I hope the SNP don’t adopt the Norway model it seem such a bad deal. Theresa May keeps finding money to give to the EU and in return receives nothing its a pity we didn’t get our Independence when we did could imagine negotiating splitting the UK assets with Theresa May government. Labour is a party that is just unelectable in its on country and we know why they are deceitful and Jeremy Corbyn angry old pensioner who has no vision for the UK you’ve got the Labour and Tory’s now adopting the SNP policies. 2018 will be a interesting year for sure.
100%Yes
I was just saying that to a colleague today, our biggest mistake, not voting yes. I could live with an EFTA type deal with the EU but I am not a fan to be honest, it’s just as shitty in some areas as the UK. Yeah it throws a bone here and there and can be said to be progressive but is it, it is still beholding to the same vested interests that the scumbag Tories are. I never believe a Tory, snakes everyone of them, disgusting party and yet their lies garner votes. I agree I think Labour are unelectable also, no use what so ever and as much a bunch of Tories as the Tories. Momentum might have a clear out but they then slowly become a fringe party in England under the present system of election. I think we are f either way to be honest, the SNP aren’t perfect by any means but they are our best hope just now, but if they don’t deliver then Yes should form it’s own party and accept the risk that comes with that move.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
Concessions to a transition period are ultimately meaningless if the transition period is short enough. The EU wants it finished by December 2020: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/25/brexit-transition-period-likely-limited-20-months-eu-officials-say
Indeed, May could even spin it as a triumph of compromise. “We give them their status quo transition and they give us the super dooper Brexit deal.” The Moggs might grumble but they’d go along with this rather than risk Corbyn getting closer to No. 10.
Crucially, the transition period finishing before 2021 also makes it more likely that the 2016 IndyRef 2 trigger will be used, although it’s a safe bet that there will be huge unionist pressure to wait a bit longer and see what the 2021 elections determine we should do.
Alan
I see what you are saying but I think things have moved on a little now by the sounds of things. Freedom of movement is the line in the sand for the Tories, they can’t go back on that in any way and it could tear them apart as any deal looks likely to have freedom of movement as a central plank, esp with Poland, Hungary and Italy starting to make noises about membership of the EU and the Euro if reports are true. There is also a harder line appearing with some countries as they start to understand the budget implications of no money from the UK, I suspect that will result in a tougher stance on any deal and to get 27 countries to agree is going to be very very difficult which all lends itself to a hard Brexit. May can’t be seen to concede too much, even the fear of Corbyn I don’t think will be enough, when push comes to shove unless Labour are 10 to 15 points in the lead I think they will risk a hard Brexit and an election in England as they only have to convince England to win any election. Interesting times indeed.
Thanks for commenting and the link, lots of good debate to be had.
Bruce
Scotland has to become a nation again for sure and the SNP need to remember what the Party stands for and forget about bad press, its better to have the support of 45% of a nation than reply on 55% that is split between 4 other parties. I reckon May will be finished as a PM any time soon and we will need to call another election and if Jeremy Corbyn does need the support of the SNP to form a goverment he’ll do anything and so will Labour party there so desperate to be in power and my opinion about Jeremy Corbyn he’s a Londoner 1st English 2nd and not so bothered being British.
100Yes
Independence is the only answer either way no matter what happens. England is going down a different road that the end will be a very rude awakening for them, they are going to find there is no empire and England means nothing to the world anymore than a curiosity that has a Disney Royal Family and is good at public funded weddings. I agree, I can’t see May lasting longer than another year or two, if she accepts free movement it will finish her. I don’t trust Corbyn at all, he is just part of the establishment, I don’t think England will elect him and power if it comes will frighten him. We have to leave.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
At the time that Norway voted not to join the EU, the then prime minister, Dr Gro Harlem Brunbtland, pointed out that they were obliged to follow most of the directives, pay a fee for membership (based, I think, on income per capita, therefore very high and far far higher than the UK) and accept the rulings of the ECJ on relevant matters.
All this without any say in the directives, or veto thereof.
Additionally, they would get no farming subsidy, no social fund payments and no structural fund payments.
Of course, as a VERY rich nation, they have no need of these payments. If they want to build something, they build it and pay for it. The whole ethos of government there is that they take care of the less fortunate as a matter of course, and once again they have the money to do it. There is a very limited amount of farming in Norway so any farming subsidy would be relatively small.
The other countries that have similar arrangements are also very rich by comparison with the UK: Iceland and Liechtenstein. And a parallel series of agreements which mirror those are enjoyed by Switzerland. Also a VERY rich country.
The trouble with the UK coming out of everything on 31 March, 2019 (as I read Redwood and his lot are proposing), is that Britain has no infrastructure to deal with any of the problems that this will throw up.
There are no institutions to deal with chemicals, medicines, radioactive isotopes, flights, customs, and hundreds of other areas. These things have been done for us by the EU. If they stop then, well, we either do without or set up our own.
It is out of the question impossible for Britain to set up these organisations in a year and a bit.
We have a bunch of halfwits who have put their trust in the fact that they are Britain. And of course, everyone, everywhere, as Cameron told us: “either respects or fears us”. Brits can have their cake and eat it, so they think.
Pity that was bollocks. But they don’t seem to get it, even though Macron, Merkel, Verhofstadt and Barnier have all told them that. And they still haven’t addressed Ireland or Gibraltar.
Still, it’ll be a laugh to watch them struggle. I’m past caring. The bigger mess they make of it the more likely we are to break free.
Cameron, you’ll remember, talked about his legacy within days of reaching Downing Street. It was, as I recall, to be the Big Society. Not only did that fall on its face within weeks, but he was stupid enough to imagine that this referendum would bind his party together and his “new” legacy would be to rid the Tories of the spectre that had haunted them since the days of Heath.
When he won, as he was as sure as could be he would (people like him always won) the Brexiteers in his party would be silenced.
Wrong.
He’s hopefully wrecked both the union and the Tory party.
As for Labour…. Pffffffffffffffff
Really, have they not got anyone who’s any good?
Tris
Thanks for the info on Norway, I never knew most of that. I actually think it will be hard Brexit either way. May can’t accept free movement and the EU will accept nothing less knowing that it will mean a hard Brexit. They want to make an example of the UK, it will backfire in the long run I suspect but in the short term they will benefit from it as far as a quick burst of trade that will make up for the lack of payments from the UK. May is finished either way, she accepts any sort of deal she is gone, she goes for the hard Brexit she is gone. The EU will try to make it difficult for the Uk to flourish if it goes alone, that will however depend on the rest of the world and given that Trump has fired the first gun with his tariffs on electrical good from Asia protectionism will hurt everyone. It will be very interesting times for the next 5 to 10 years, Scotland will have one more opportunity to chart a different path. I really believe an independent Scotland, once it gets sorted and starts to fix the mess the UK has made of it, can be a small but progressive country that could show a different part from social justice, the environment to banking and progressive industries. That is what scares England, the portential of Scotland, a potential that can’t even dream of. The UK is going to have to take a lot of steps back before it takes one forward, the Tories have to go and we need a new political system. If Scotland stupidly stays in the UK I think we are looking at federalism, England won’t have the stomach for continuous Scottish division that will just keep growing in the longer term, its all a mess but for saddos like us who like politics we are living in times that will change the world, just a pity we have thick as shit politicians in our part of this history.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce