STV Anti Democracy

A friend pointed this story out to me tonight and I am pissed off to be honest.

The Scottish Green Party have more MSPs than the Scottish Liberal Democrats and more party members yet are to be left out of the STV Leaders debate to be held on May 28th. 

Rightly so both the SNP and the Scottish Greens have asked for this decision to be reversed but to be honest we should not be in this position in the first place. It is just plain wrong in every way. It’s bad enough that supporters of independence are always outnumbered on television but this is yoonionist anti democracy at work.

The SNP should refuse to take part and if the yoonionist branch managers can find a spine they should too . If Patrick Harvie is not included in the debate I will not be watching, none of us should. The dishonesty of the yoonionist media in Scotland is now legendary so a lot of people won’t be surprised by this. I can not agree more with my friend Bill who writes

We deserve better than this. The media in this country are a yoonionist pravda of the worst kind. Yoonionists are rarely challenged, their lies rarely pointed out, and basically get wall to wall free party political broadcasts on the Yoon television mafia cartel. What we will have is the Yoon version of a fair fight, three against one.

Will the electoral commission comment, of course not but we should. As Bill said we should not be letting this one go. It is a disgrace. 



  1. TheStrach

    Others have also picked up on this latest anti-democratic action by the unionist media. It beggars belief that they think they can get away with it. Pressure must be exerted on STV to include the Greens in the debate.

    • grumpyscottishman

      I must admit I was surprised when Bill posted the story, I had hoped we had gotten past all this nonsense for debates but obviously not. It is plain wrong and just the usual ganging up on Nicola Sturgeon, I won’t watch it if Patrick Harvie is not there and neither should anyone else, these days are past when we accept this type of thing.

      Thanks for commenting.


  2. Alan

    Obvious solution: Nicola brings Harvie to the debate anyway, possibly disguised as an aide and brought onto the stage at the last minute. It’d be a PR disaster if STV then tried to throw him out of the building.

    The problem is they do have two technical points to shut the Greens out. First, the Greens don’t contest all seats in Scotland. Second, the Scottish Greens haven’t got an elected MP(Caroline Lucas doesn’t count, because the Scottish and English&Wales Greens are separate parties). Bear in mind – this is a Westminister election, not a Holyrood one.

    Much as I like the greens(I plan to vote them #1 next week), I have to concede they’re simply not even a minor party in this *particular* contest. Indeed, they are specifically NOT contesting certain seats in favour of the SNP. And you know the unionist trio would tear into Harvie for that whenever they’re briefly distracted from doing the same to Sturgeon.

    At least there’s a leaders’ debate at all. The UK isn’t going to get one, even though they should damn well empty chair May, Corbyn and anyone else who refuses to show up.

    • grumpyscottishman

      The SNP/Greens will complain but the SNP won’t withdraw from the debate and that is what needs to happen and then they hammer it home everyday that STV can easily amend this by being fair and neutral, not the media arm of the yoons. I understand what you mean about this being a Westminster election, and I had that mentioned to me last night by a unionist and I noted that in that case then lets have May, Farron, Corbyn, Robertson and Lucas. No reply, STV need to include the Greens or not have the debate is my take on it, they are a major party in Scotland and need to be heard in my opinion.

      Thanks for commenting.


      • Alan

        I have to disagree again – simply being elected does not make one a major party. My categorisations currently stands as follows:
        Major party – SNP
        Minor parties – Tory, Labour, Lib Dems, Greens
        Fringe parties – SSP, UKIP, etc.

        Westminister(Scotland seats)
        Major – SNP
        Minor – Tory, Labour, Lib Dem
        Fringe – Greens, SSP, UKIP, etc.

        For the record, I do think leadership debates should be held in various formats, including ALL parties with elected represention anywhere. But if the shitty media and shitty parties refuse to faciliate that utopian dream, kicking the table over and refusing to take part is simply doing the same thing that Corbyn and May did by refusing to take part. It shuts down the debates completely. If STV is really shutting out the Greens due to unionist bias, the SNP pulling out would be catnip to them – they wouldn’t talk about the Greens being the reason, but would seek to accuse Sturgeon of being too chicken to face Ruth Davidson(even though May is too chicken to face Corbyn, let’s not forget the tabloids print different front pages in Scotland and England for a reason!).

          • Alan

            Look, the choices are very limited. It’s effectively down to A) No debates, b) One culled debate. There is no option C available nor any power to make one. That sucks, but if the SNP pulled out on the basis of the Greens’ exclusion, I sincerely believe the media would go “Oh well, no debates then. LOL SNP BAD”

            As for allowing the media to dictate what our politics should be, unfortunately they DO have the power to shape political discourse. They are protected in this by Westminister because broadcasting is a reserved matter. Reality. There are several ways to change this in the long term but nothing immediately available.

            There is a strong possibility this is also the last Westminister election Scotland takes part in. Keep your fingers crossed for that!

            • grumpyscottishman

              You’re correct the media do shape political content and output, that won’t change anytime soon. I would have no issue if there are no debates if it means standing up for the principle of democratic choice. Maybe it’s time for the rules to be laid down for all debates by the electoral commission. I would prefer that broadcasting be devolved but it won’t ever happen and I agree fingers crossed we are out of this nightmare soon.

              Thanks for getting back to me .


    • Bill Higgins

      I acknowledge that there is minimal representation from the Green Party at Westminster, and these are Westminster UK elections, as far as the TV debate goes. But in my perception it’s still not good enough. My feelings are that Scotland is where we live, the debate is obviously a Scottish one, the Scottish party leaders are all in the line up, and there is a relevant Greens presence up here. If they were irrelevant, then the Independence issue would never have got through Holyrood. And according to the Tories’ election literature, this is what the election is all about. And it’s Scottish Television specifically for a Scottish audience. Common sense and decency, democracy, in fact, is thrown out of the window by a mere technical detail. Everything else points to the Greens being a relevant part of the proceedings. Westminster election or not. And oh how convenient for the pro-unionist powers that be. The big picture says to me that the Greens should be represented.

  3. 100%YES

    It’s not about leaving the Greens out of the STV debate, it’s about isolating Nicola and the SNP to the mecy of the establishment, the green are no threat to anyone at the westminster elections and everyone knows that. But Nicola and Patrick as pro-Independence supporters together are a threat to the Union and this is why the greens have been left out. The audiance will be bias towards any one or party that supports the breakup of this Union. Red Tory will belt on about the NHS and the Blue Tory will belt on about the Union while If I only had a brain will Belt on about we have to stay the course. Nicola should refuse to take part I don’t think anyone would concider it as being anything other than supportive towards the greens after all Corbyn saying he wont take part if the May doesn’t. Nicola if your reading this love tell them to F*ck off don’t be someone else bate leave that to Labour. And Patrick if you are reading this you need to back away from seats that the Tories could take from the SNP and tell your supporters to back the SNP if where going to get in the dirt lets roll in it.

    • grumpyscottishman

      I have a lot of sympathy for your view. I don’t know if this is an agenda by the people who own these media outlets or the bias that we know exists within the journalists and producers of these programmes but it is there, or certainly appears to be. I know that Nicola Sturgeon can’t win either way but she is on a hammering to nothing anyway so if it were my choice I would say that we won’t appear unless the Greens are involved and we go with the Party Leaders not the branch managers. Like the EU referendum, where UKip got free political broadcasts, this is just the same but will be about the Tories and shouty Ruth.

      Thanks for commenting.


  4. Lanark

    Of course the Scottish Greens should be there, they only have one less MP than the Tories, Red Tories and Wee Willie’s Ruthie tribute act. In terms of membership they are the fourth biggest party in Scotland.

    Misreporting Scotland is equally guilty of ignoring the fact that the Greens are represented at Holyrood.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Totally agree, they appear or the SNP should choose not to, the days of kowtowing to these people should be well gone, we should have had enough by now.

      Thanks for commenting.


  5. 100%YES

    We have been told to leave one undemocratic union EU only to be told stay in a other undemocratic union UK. Me personally i would rather be a member of the Europe than a member of Uk, it only takes triggering article 50 to leave the EU and at leased you have a veto, what do we have as member of uk a parliament that can sent 59 MP who have no say. I personally would never regret leaving the UK there not forward thinking enough for me where the EU is.

    • grumpyscottishman

      As I have blogged previously I agree with that view, I voted leave but now regret that decision in the sense of how my vote has been used by the right, Bill did warn me, but I would also much rather be a part of a union where we actually have a say and not a Westminster where they only want we have not what we think.

      Thanks for commenting.


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