Comment by a disgruntled Liberal.
So there we have it, every ammendment put forward to the Scotland Act by the majority of MPs elected by the Scottish people have been rejected by the UK Parliament. This means that the so called respect agenda results in English Votes for English Laws and English Votes for Scottish Laws, English Votes for Welsh Laws and English Votes for Northern Irish Laws. NOTHING HAS REALLY CHANGED.
We are very fastly approaching a constitutional crisis in many ways and I just do not believe that the Scottish people will sit by for too much longer allowing this situation to continue. Basically, as has always been the case, English MPs can decide on what happens in Scotland in vital areas by simply voting down any proposal they don’t like or that they feel might make Scotland have an advantage or deliver better outcomes for Scottish people. However, Scottish MPs can in no way influence what happens in England and cannot vote down any English legislation, even if that legislation has a negative impact on Scotland in any way. This is no longer acceptable.
I have been ashamed watching some of the debate this week, watching English MPs troop in for the vote from the bars, taking no part in the debate but cheering the nay vote and sneering at 56 of Scotland’s representatives in Westminster. Watching the sole Labour, Conservative and Liberal MPs in Scotland going against the wishes of the Scottish people AGAIN. I have been ashamed that the Liberal Democrats abstained from the vote when things like Full Fiscal Atonomy are vital steps towards federalism, do they really want the break up of the UK! Yes I suspect they do and their contemp for the Scottish people this week has brought the end of the UK that much closer.
Do the unionist parties in Scotland really believe that Scottish voters are going to sit by and watch this happen, do they really believe the no vote was the end of the process, that watering down Smith to the point that it is no longer relevant will go unnoticed by the voters. I suspect they are in for a rude awakening. I joined the Liberal Democrats because I am a Liberal and would be happy to accept a federal UK. By sitting on our hands you are making it very difficult to say what the Liberal Democrats are actually for, if we are not even for federalism then what is the point. I am an angry man this week, not surprised, but angry and frustrated that Westminster can show such contempt for the Scottish people, you should all be ashamed.
I suspect that the SNP may well now come up with proposals for next years election to the Scottish Parliament that will put the Unionist Parties under real pressure regarding the constitution, and rightly so. This week has shown many voters in Scotland again that their vote does not count if Westminster does not like that vote. Now for the elections next year I am not expecting to see anything even remotely radical from the Liberal Democrats in Scotland, I suspect we have to fall a bit further before we get the chance to look at radical change in Scotland. We have got to stop being the party of only child care, asking people to resign and gloating over bad oil figures. We need to be the progressive, forward thinking, liberal thinking party we can be, fighting for Scotland in a federal UK. My time in the Liberal Democrats has been brief so far, and I still have so much more to learn, but this week, watching the debate in Westminster made this Liberal even more of a YES voter than I was before.
The Liberal Democrats are a unionist party, nothing wrong with that at all but when that Union actually means England then we have a very serious problem that is not going to go away and my money is on the Scottish people.
Then join the SNP Grumpy.
Libs are unionists who will go against the will of the people of Scotland . You know this . Rip up your Fibs membership and get back on board the indi bus. SNP have the support and numbers to bring this about.
Waiting on your miracles from the FIbs is fantasy Grumpy.
You and i and all Scots and their representatives are officially second class in our own country.
No amount of talking changes things. The Greens are bust here too as their English partners voted against FFA. Suicide poltics . SNP memebers , and they get out and vote , will be dropping the Greens like hot stones.
There are only two sides now. Them or us.
Who’d have thought the bastards would turn on us like this eh ???
Oh yep i remember now…. we told you so . .. countless times… they LIE . Always.
I was really disappointed with the debate, the behaviour and attitude of the MPs who are obviously being told what to do and think. It makes democracy a sham and we all deserve better, not just Scotland.
I have no issues with the SNP and have won’t diss them or slag them off. I think their record is pretty good overall, there are things that I am not a fan off but that’s how it goes. No one is every happy about everything and especially politics. I have also made no secret, even to the Liberal democrats, that I am a yes voter and that is not going to change unless they start to really go for federalism. I hope they do but I won’t hold my breath.
I won’t be re-joining the SNP, it’s just not for me. I really am a social liberal and I don’t regret joining the party, all I can do is express my opinion when I can and maybe someone will take some of it on board. You have to start someplace but I really do believe we need a Liberal voice in parliament and in particular local politics. One party dominating is not good for anyone but that won’t change as long as the other parties are pretty useless at the top level.
Thanks for commenting, I enjoy our wee chats.
I can see yes guy’s point, but I’m not going to tell you what party to join. I don’t think you belong in the liberals though, not in their present guise. Could you really vote for a party that,
votes against, or abstains on one of their highest principles, federalism?
I am a Liberal and that is why I joined. I also really believe that we need a social liberal voice, I really do. One party dominating is not good for anyone, we have seen that in the past with labour, but as I noted to YESGUY, it’s not the SNPs fault that the other parties are pretty much useless at the top.
I am going to express my opinion as much as I can and hopefully it might get someone to listen, I do think that if we can more people involved so we can see change. It will take a long time but I am going to give it a go. I am under no illusion that nothing might change for the Lib Dems, but if it doesn’t then they will die in Scotland and only have themselves to blame. I won’t lose any sleep if people don’t learn, but I don’t think it would be a good thing. Certain people probably need to be gone and I suspect that next years elections will see one or two go, possibly even Willie Rennie as he is just not really impressive at all. The Liberals need more of the Charles Kennedy from 10 years ago.
Thanks for commenting.
strong chance the government will lose this vote
They will if they don’t whip their MPs, but if it goes ahead then it will come back to haunt a future government. Not Cameron, he will be gone, but it will be another nail in the coffin of the UK as long as Barnett etc continues. I agree with the Liberal Democrats, it is time for a consititutional convention as things cannot continue to go on the way they are with the current set up. It’s time for a fully federal UK.
Thanks for commenting.
Well Bruce I certainly will not say I told you so, cause I didn’t.
Was speaking to my many friends in the States yesterday who were about to celebrate their Independence Day. I said that if Westminster carries on as they are doing we will be joining them in having a Tea Party, well maybe an Edinburgh Coffee Day. Our problem is that it was fine way back in the 18th Century to take up arms against an oppressor but we Scots like to be thought of a civilised. I think our civil nature will be tried and tried and tried again before this is finished.
I think I said that Willie Rennie was formerly my MP and it says a very great deal about Westminster and how this bit of tat could be thought of as an adequate MP, and how many more of them are there. They can vanish without trace down there and I am sure that is what the Establishment loves, this seems to be the way with both Tory and Labour and Lib Dem.
I do not share your regard for Charlie Kennedy, the man should have resigned from Parliament when he was outed by Daisy MacAndrew (we think). It did him no good being there and it certainly did his constituents none.
Either the Tories are stupid, mad or both if they really think the Scotland Act is going to appease the majority of Scottish voters, it won’t and while the Tories are already pretty much useless in Scotland the Liberals and Labour are failling to learn the lessons. Willie Rennie I suspect might be gone next year either way, he will either lose his seat (wouldn’t bother me) or the Liberals will do as badly as I suspect they will and he will have to go anyway. They will probably only have list MSPs next year and maybe as few as two of them so the choices will be limited but then they made their bed and they have to lay in it. I will certainly be arguing for the party to pursue at the very least federalism and election reform at a UK level, I will also be promoting the need to put Scotland first and if noi one listens then at least I will have tried.
Thanks for commenting.
That is all us Sma’ folk can dois argue, that and not vote for them if they do not do what we want. We should remember that Bruce would have lost Bannockburn but for the same Sma’ folk. Right now the three Unionists have no backing from us to do as they are doing, it may play badly but then they are so thrawn.
It is really frustrating but Scottish people and Scotland take forever to get really pissed off, 400 years of brainwashing about the union will do that but I really do believe that unless something drastic changes, and soon, the union is over a lot sooner than people think. I also really suspect that Scotland would be quiet happy with proper federalism and would have chosen that had it been on the ballot paper, that might come back to be the downfall of the unionists and I still don’t understand why the Liberals didn’t fight for it being on the ballot, makes you suspect that Willie Rennie and Clegg etc are not in fact Liberals at all.
Thanks for commenting.