I’m a Liberal, No going back now

I have always considered myself a Liberal Democrat and have blogged about this a few times:

https://grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/im-a-liberal/
https://grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/im-a-liberal/

However I never felt that I could join the party so joined the SNP and voted YES in the referendum. The Liberal Party for myself were anything but Liberal and their actions and language with Better Together was very difficult to stomach. Their coalition with the Conservatives, even though I suspect they were harshly judged, was also very difficult to watch. Danny Alexander smiling at every bad news announcement and Vince Cable not reforming the banks to the extent he said he would all felt like betrayals to Liberals everywhere and something I wanted no part of.

But I never really felt like I was a part of the SNP due to my Liberal beliefs so never got actively involved. Although I voted SNP and congratulate them on their unbelievable election success, the SNP was always a means to an end for myself. They deserve their success due to their hard work and now have to live up to the expectation that this success brings. The voters have trusted them so it’s up to them now, but I don’t think their first week has went well, it’s all felt like a school trip to Westminster but I wish them well and hope that they use this mandate to forward the interests of Scotland.

The Liberal Democrats had a very bad election, no one would deny that. I won’t miss Danny Alexander, Charles Kennedy or Jo Swinson as I felt they lost touch of why they were there but did feel sorry for Michael Moore whom I considered a decent man. This defeat however means that the Liberal Democrats now need to re-build to a huge extent and I decided I want to be a part of that.

I appreciate that it won’t be easy to influence entrenched views but Scotland needs a strong Liberal Party. One party politics is dangerous, it’s not good for the SNP and it’s not good for Scotland. I will continue to vote for independence if Federalism remains off of the agenda but I will argue for Federalism in all its glory as I believe it’s what a lot of Scotland wants.

I would be happy to continue to share sovereignty around defence and foreign affairs, happy to share a national bank,  but I believe that everything else must be decided in Scotland and elections fought under proportional representation. 

I am looking forward to being involved in the local Liberal Democrats in Dundee. I have met a few of the members and they seem really nice and involved for the right reasons. I will not get involved in gutter politics and rubbishing the SNP or the other parties, I did not like what Willie Rennie tweeted about Alex Salmond this week, those politics have to end. I have done that myself and it’s not something we can do anymore. The public are sick of nasty politics, by all means be critical, I certainly will continue to do that, but the rest let’s put aside and consign to the gutter.

I want to thank the SNP for having myself as a member, I hope I didn’t waste your time but I suspect I did not as I never got involved. To the Liberal Democrats I am looking forward to what I hope will be an interesting and engaging political debate  as I move forward as a member.

To anyone who feels I am a sell out please don’t judge me harshly, I have never hidden my political beliefs and my being a member of the SNP was actually my denying them. I feel that I have now joined the party where my beliefs belong, where I will grow politically and continue to learn. In some ways it’s a relief to finally and publicly acknowledge in all its glory that I’m a Liberal.

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30 comments

    • Anonymous

      bjsalba

      That is a very good question and one that I suspect many were asking during the election. For me Liberal values are what I suspect most or many people have. I think liberalism is about fairness, about decency, about equality and opportunity. I would like to see a Liberal party that stands for voting reform, equal responsibility where those with most accept that they have a duty to support those with the least. I would like to see a real federalism come about if that is all that Scotland will accept or independence with a strong liberal party in it. Liberalism is about devolved power at the lowest possible level, less state intervention in areas like snoopers charters and id cards and more about creating the environment of empowerment where people have the confidence and skills to learn and grow themselves, to take advantage of the state around education, health etc. It all sounds like a utopia but for me liberalism values all people but equally stands up for those who are trodden on and will hit those who do things like avoid tax.

      I hope that makes some sense, thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

  1. YESGUY

    Honesty and pragmatism.

    Well done Grumpy. Great article and i doubt many SNP voters will be fussed. You supported an indi Scotland and for that i am greatful. Shame you fall for the one party bit tho.

    How can we be a one party state when we live in a union ?????

    Our oppsition is WM. We have the MSM and BBC continually driving wedges into the Scots and i have to say that although i respect your decisions. You could have stayed the course. The fight for independence is still on and you can’t do that as a libdem . They are a unionist party and will not change. You say the SNP are a means to an end ?? What is that end G. ?

    The SNP gained a majority against the odds in a PR system . Doubt they will do so well again as it was a perfect storm scenario. Tha leaves plenty of scope for other parties to gain seats. One party state… seriously grumpy. I am at a loss there. Sounds like unionist propaganda to undermind the bad SNP again.

    And Grumpy there are clever folk being sent down to WM. They have Angus and Alex always at their backs helping them on. You lived up to your name with the comments about a school trip.suor grape concidering you voted for them Whatsthatallabout buddy ? Give the a chance please before you judge them . They have worked hard to get there and WM isn’t even open for buisiness yet. poor Grumpy.

    FIB DEM or Indi. ? you can’t have both.

    You sound like the labour party officials. Two faced arguing one way then the next.
    One policy here another there .

    I hope i don’t sound angry or bitter G. I have enjoyed the blog and related to much you spoke off. I might be liberal minded myself who knows. But the jobs not done and excuse me being forward here.

    Your jumping ship. from a lifeboat to the titanic. There is no Lib party in Scotland. they are the whores of the WM big two. Sleeping with whoever will give them status. The Shetlands their only seat and boy that was a close call.

    Until independence that will always be the case. like Labour they answer to London first and foremost. Nothing will change and when you try to convince me or other , i doubt anyone will listen. Only independence can save LIbs and labour too.

    And i will not be surprised if the Greens and SSP parties gain a pile of seats at the SE2016. They will be ample opposition until we are free. At the expense of the union parties.

    Your choice tho Grumpy. I respect that and wish you good luck. Honestly, and thank you for sharing your thoughts and beliefs. Wish you luck to on any other adventures you decide. it’s been a fun filled and terror filled time.

    • Anonymous

      YESGUY

      Thanks for the feedback and I’ll try my best to explain my reasons behind it.

      The one party state part is really about the need for the other parties in Scotland getting their act together and starting to put forward a coherent message to the voters. The risk if they don’t is that the SNP will move ahead unopposed and that is neither good for the SNP or the country. It’s not the SNPs fault in any way and if people decide to vote for the SNP in huge numbers then that is democracy in action and I won’t ever complain about that. But there are areas where there needs to be serious challenge, Police Scotland being one and bursaries to poorer students being another. Both policies are not working and neither have been challenged in any shape or form. Without opposition then the bad ideas or the mistakes will never be challenged and learned from.

      The fight for independence of course is still on, I will continue to support that cause and will vote for it in a future referendum if federalism is not on the table, and I agree it won’t be, so I will vote yes again in future. Believe it or not there was a yes movement within the Liberal party, it didn’t get the publicity that Labour for Independence did but it was there and it was active. In many ways that is the side of the party that I will fall into.

      The school trip comment was really about what I was seeing on Twitter, I wasn’t the only one who commented on it and many SNP members were uncomfortable how it was coming across. This wasn’t the shocking media doing a stitch up it was the obvious excitement of the week going to the extremes and of course there are many smart and articulate new SNP MPs who have a very important job to do for us all. It’s up to them now to live up to the expectation in a hostile Westminster.

      I don’t accept that you can’t have both as in independence and federalism, as I said above there is a strong Yes movement within the Liberal party. Parties change, the SNP when it first started was a mix of 3 or 4 other parties, many of which were strong socialist parties and I think were on the extreme end. Parties change, the SNP are a good example of what can be achieved when like minded people band together. I don’t see myself as jumping ship as I have always been a liberal just not a member of the party. I think one of my very first, very poor blogs in around 2011 was about the fact I was a liberal. It was one of the reasons that I chose not to get actively involved in the SNP, I did not feel comfortable with it. The SNP for myself were the means to an end for independence, that is still the case for many. When independence comes, as I have no doubt it will, many will move on to the parties where they are most suited, be that a Scottish labour , Liberal or Conservative Parties but it will happen.

      The Liberal party faced a wipe out in the election, they are now going to have to face up to change, they are a unionist and federalist party and I am under no illusion about the party I have joined. But if I can convince some that there is a different way ahead, that if the Liberal Democrats can’t bring about federalism then it will need to be independence, no issues there for me, I aim to do my best to get involved in the debate. The other part of the Liberal party that many don’t understand is that it is actually the party where members have the most power. Members vote on policy that can’t be ignored by the leadership, no other party has that.

      I was under no illusion when I wrote my blog and cancelled my SNP membership that I was putting myself out there. I didn’t expect any less and I am glad you commented to express your opinion, that is so important. My blog has always been critical of all of the parties when they have deserved that, my blog is a pro independence blog and that will not change. The only thing that has changed is that I have decided to join and hopefully get involved in the party that I closely associate myself with. I hope that people understand and accept that.

      Thank you very much for commenting.

      Bruce

      • bjsalba

        You say Police Scotland needs to be challenged. Where is your evidence? It looks to me like you are falling for the media campaign against Police Scotland. Have you information from any other source?

        • grumpyscottishman

          Bsjalba

          Nothing from the media but from parliament, MSP s and committee where concerns have again been raised about armed police in supermarkets getting their lunch, the continued stop and search of under 12s which was supposed to be stopped and support staffing. All raised in parliament or in committee by a wide variety of people.

          Thanks for commenting.

          Bruce

          • bjsalba

            Which MSPs, and where did they get their information? My local paper quoted only the opposition Councillors when they reported armed police on our street. They reported that SNP were satisfied with what the police had said.

            The article which accompanied the photograph of three armed police on our High Street was peppered with the words “Routine Armed Patrols” which appeared in almost every paragraph. They never once let the reading public know that the police in the photograph were not a Routine Armed Patrol. They were, in fact,an Armed Response Team sent out specially to answer a report of a drunk armed with a knife in the town centre.

            Another thing they don’t tell you is that the use of Armed Response Teams is UK-Wide. Funnily enough the pictures of English Armed Police (in East Anglia I think) disappeared from the BBC website about after 2 hours after I mentioned them to a popular blogger.

            Scottish Stop and Search law is different from English. Searching under 12s is not illegal no matter how much the papers try to make you think it is. As far as I have been able to find out the police were never asked (except by the papers) and have never said they were going to stop completely. Read this for the boring but accurate detail. http://www.spa.police.uk/assets/126884/230479/scrutinytaskgroupreport. I read it a while ago, but I think I need to read it again.

            I am not saying that Police Scotland is a perfect organization but I am saying that the campaign against them is wholly and completely fabricated by the Unionist Media.

  2. YESGUY

    Grumpy.

    Still got you bookmarked and will always visit the blog. You write well but still a wee bit surprised by the change as Lib dems are a unionist party fact..

    Federalism will never be brought in.

    England is too big for one reason and they don’t want local representation Grumpy. The English are happy with their system. Your arguement for federalism will never ever be used.

    Try asking for the euro lottery as you have more chance of that. Poor arguement i feel.

    This is about Scotland tho. The English electorate have chosen and we all suffer. If Scotland wants the govt it votes for then there is only one way – indpendence.

    The police thing ??? Are you for real. Having a centralised police force is hardly the end of the world and i know many a copper who feels the system is better for all. You have your right to say how you feel but has it escaped your notice that armed police are everywhere. And because of the stupidity of WM’s austerity policies the Scottish Govt has to make savings somewhere. They have done well so far and picking up the police things smacks of MSM bullshit. Sorry but it’s a poor reason.

    How about the fact you pass armed police everytime you enter an airport ? Does it put you off your holiday ? Tha police have weapons in the boot of their cars as well. They need to be able to react quickly to any situation. Might have saved a few kids in Dunblane if they had been armed and sent to the school quicker.

    Annoys you that a copper on duty with a gun can pop into a shop for his lunch ??? Where else can they go and do you realise that this nit picking hardly makes the arguement for supporting a unionist party.

    Still your allowed your say and fair enough. just very surprised and i feel a wee bit let down.

    Still cannot fathom why you support indi but have now joined a union party.

    It’s like arguing for race laws in the KKK.

    That’s the thing i notice with LIBDEMs. They try and stay in between the big two but have nothing serious to offer.

    Incidently Grumpy. Your party leader is a useless voicebox aT Hollyrood . SNP bad.You are gonna vote for wee Willie … laughable and utterly contemptable. He is a fud.

    And when is MR Carbuncle going to be done for the crass lies over frenchgate. ???

    Aye pick your side Grumpy. I know where i stand.

    FIBDEMS the hints in the name .

    Ps . I don’t agree with many policies SNP have but as a member i have a say in how the party can change. SNP has already proven it can do this . You cannot seriously ask us to believe the FIBS have changed..

    For a hundred years they back home rule for Scotland and on the vote last September they changed sides and joined the unionist to down Scotland very day.

    Short memory Grumpy 😦

    • grumpyscottishman

      Yesguy

      I think Fedarlism is closer than many people think, esp as it may well be the only thing that saves both Labour and the Liberals down south in the longer term. I think you will see a constitutional convention before another independence referendum to be honest. I can’t see Westminster agreeing to one in the next five years and I don’t think the SNP will want another one until they are sure to win it.

      I don’t disagree with you that many want independence in Scotland and I really believe that it will happen at some point in the next 10 to 20 years, I also don’t need to be a member of an independence party to share that belief. Scotland is moving in a diferrent direction than London and the South East but I think that Northern English politics in many ways are closer to Scottish than London.

      Police Scotland I accept came about partly to mitigate cuts to the block grant but that doesn’t mean that I or anyone else needs to be comfortable with armed Police on the streets or searching under 12’s without another adult being present. I have never supported armed Police on the streets and never will, I have lived in both the USA and Ghana where armed Police are routine and I didn’t like it there either. It’s just my opinion and not going to change any time soon. As far as the msm are concerned I don’t really buy papers other than the national sometimes and I tend to watch Channel 4 and Euro News. Most of my info comes from following trusted blogs and actually watching parliament and listening to the MPs / MSPs. Armed Police rarely act quickly to a situation and very very rarely draw their weapons quickly is my undertsnading of it.

      Again you don’t have to be a member of the SNP to support independence. There are many within both Labour and the Liberal Democrats who support indpendence and even the independence of the parties in Scotland. I would agree with that also. But it would be worth considering that if any future referendum is to be won it needs to convince 55% of the population that it’s the right thing to do. The media won’t do it and unionist MPs / MSPs were equally, like the YES side, econimical with the facts to suit their own message. That is what I won’t do, I will call it as I see it and will advocate for what I fee is right within the Liberal Democrats and thats how any future referendum will be won, not by the media but people like you and me being to put across the case for it to those against it without the baggage of being in the media or elected. My joining the Liberals is about my being a Liberal, nothing more than that. I deliberately never got involved in the SNP for that very reason.

      I would agree that both Carmichael and Rennie are not the best, you know that and I know that. My vote has always been about whom I feel will best represent me and national policy or plan have always been second to that. The SNP like all parties is not perfect, all women short lists being an example of plitical correctness going mad in all the parties. I have no idea why the Liberal Democrats did not fight for the second question on the ballot paper and they have paid a heavy price for campaigning with the tories in Scotland, the same is I cannot understand why the SNP did not opt for a Scottish currency, a Scottish National Bank and the end of the unelected head of state during the campaign when many of their supporters would like to see that happen.

      No one or no party is perfect but maybe I can argue my points from within the Liberal movement as many have already done and will continue to do. Will it change anything who knows, they might throw me out but I feel that I am not a member of a party that I really didn’t feel comfortable in. I would rather be honest than just give them my money and not get involved because most of my political beliefs don’t fit. Just how it is.

      Labour and Lib Dems will either change or die a slow death in Scotland, while it is fun to see some people getting what has come to them it is not good in the long run for Scotland or democracy.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

  3. YESGUY

    Thanks for the reply Grumpy.

    I hear you my friend. it’s difficult to type the words i want to say. it always seems harsh. That’s one of the reasons i come here. You manage to get the right words out without being too pushy.

    I wish you all the best for the changes you hope can come to the Libs. They are in need of fresh new blood and maybe you can start the ball rolling. This is how the YES campaign came about G. It was a trickle, then a flood.

    I know that there are many folk who voted SNP who are against independence but that’s changing G. We vote whoever and we ALWAYS get the party England wants. That’s the straightest fact about the union. Times are changing fast and we have time on our hands. We just need to stand back and let the union parties do the rest.

    LIEbour- They love to lie. Caught out time and time again.

    FIBdems- They love to lie Caught out again and again.

    See the link ?? Trust is the big issue here.

    And will you push for Carbunckles resignation over the Frenchgate farce he orchestrated ??

    Like all the union parties in Scotland trust is a big issue.

    They and their union pals Took part in the biggest propaganda agenda over the REF . The most important decision Scotland could ever make and the FIBS , hand in hand with the rest distorted and spun and smeared their way through a campaign designed to scare voters rather than inform them.

    You are far to quick to forgive Grumpy.

    I am not .

    • grumpyscottishman

      YESGUY

      It’s not the case of being quick to forgive it’s the acceptance that the only way that Scotland can change is if more than 50% of the people want it. The SNP argue for proportional representation now and I totally agree with that. I also want to see federalism on the ballot paper in future as I know many people who voted yes who wanted devo max or federalism, however you want to call it, but voted yes as it wasn’t there.

      I think the politics of division has to end, I’m bored with it now in all the parties, the cheap shots and as you said the lies. I was actually disappointed that Carmichael kept his seat, if anyone should have survived I would have preferred Michael Moore as he tried his best and I don’t recall him ever deliberately lying, he was removed because he showed too much respect to the yes side allegedly.

      Fingers crossed we can all do our bit to make things better but at the very least start to move politics more towards respect and common ground, certainly won’t be easy from all sides but worth a try.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

  4. Political Tourist

    I’ve never met a Liberal.
    Wasn’t much call for Liberals in Scottish housing schemes.
    Think they might have had the odd councillor or two places like Rutherglen or Greenock back in the old FPTP council election days.
    Think the old Liberal Party really died out around the 1920s on Clydeside.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Political Tourist

      Yeah, wasn’t much call for one in Whitfield Dundee where I grew up either. Your family were Labour or SNP and now in Dundee it’s becoming your SNP. The hardest working councillor in the City is a Liberal and has served for over 10 years in a strong Labour area. I’ve voted for him a few times myself and he’s local which makes all the difference for me.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

  5. hektorsmum

    To each his own Bruce, though I do question that in joining the Lib Dems you are actually joining the Liberals. I have no idea what they stand for, nothing from what I have seen. Good luck I do hope that there will be no more disappointments because there has not been a Political Party born that fulfils everyone’s dreams or wishes. I have been in and out of the SNP but you see my one abiding wish is to see us independent and there is nobody else who actually has a hope in hell of doing it, certainly not the Three Unionist Parties. I cannot forgive any of them and never will and it is long past the time for the Party of your choice to do the decent thing and die.

    • Anonymous

      hektorsmum

      Hi, that’s part of the debate that is taking place within the party now regarding going back and starting again to a degree and just being the Liberal Party. Some thing that I would support to be honest. I agree with you that the Liberal Democrats in many ways lost sight of what they stand for and therefor lost many voters, like Labour standing with better together and going into coalition with the Tories was also a huge mistake and one that they are paying the price for. I suspect they have a long way back but I decided that I felt I wanted to be a part of that.

      I have never hidden the fact that I would be happy if the UK was a proper federal union and that I always considered myself a liberal with no home, I could live with that as equally as I can live with independence, in any future referendum if federalism or devo absolute max is not on the ballot I will campaign for independence and probably vote for independence anyway. Believe it or not but there was an independence movement with the Scottish Liberal democrats, never got the publicity of labour for independence but it was there.

      It’s really about my beliefs and where I feel comfortable, even though I was a member of the SNP I could never bring myself to get involved or attend any meetings. I certainly will not rubbish them now that I have left, I’ll be critical as I am with any party if I feel that way but I won’t get involved in rubbishing anyone, those politics have to go. The politics of hate and slagging people off gets us no where and I have had enough of it and won’t get involved it. We need to find common ground, the country is in a mess and we no longer have time for the politics of hate, criticism fine but personal attacks are finished for me.

      I don’t blame you for never forgiving the unionist parties for the fear and lies, I totally accept that as I have said I won’t be a part of it but the simple fact is that to get change we need 50% plus the next time and I will be happy to fight to convince people that they can make an informed choice based on the facts and not fear.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

  6. Sue Varley

    Hi Grumpy.

    Just want to say – good luck to you in your quest to help reform the Lib Dems. All the Unionist parties in Scotland need serious reform, even the Tories, and now is the time to do it. I hope they are not so deeply entrenched in adversarial politics that change becomes impossible for them. Please keep us informed on how this goes, I honestly would like to know.

    My personal view is that none of them deserve to survive after the lies and vilification they were engaged in as Better Together. I would prefer to see them all replaced with new parties and a clean slate. I have a real trust issue with them all. If a party wants to change its policies that’s fine, but they should do so openly and honestly, and not after they have got into power. They all need new leaders, new manifestos, and to change the behaviour of their MPs and MSPs before I would ever consider voting for them again.

    As for Federalism, I’m against it because Foreign policy is one of the biggest reasons I want independence for. Under any Federal system you could come up with, we could still have Trident, still be in America’s back pocket for illegal wars, still have all the Friends of Israel politicians in the Federal UK parliament that we have in the current Westminster parliament, if voters in England continue to elect representatives in favour of these things, since their reps will always out number ours.

    If your federal system would allow any of the four UK states a veto over any given issue, or the right not to take part in any given military action, or the right not to host Trident even if the federal parliament voted for it, I might consider it. But the referendum campaign, vow, Smith etc, so sickened me with the UK state (government, civil service, big business etc) that I no longer want anything to do with it. The “jockophobic” election campaign we’ve just undergone has done nothing to mitigate my view, either.

    Hope this doesn’t sound too negative – I appreciate you are taking flak for this post and I genuinely wish you well in your endeavour. For what it’s worth, I think the Lib Dems are the least “unsalvageable” of the parties.

    Sue Varley (English, SNP member)

    • Anonymous

      Sue

      Hi. Thanks for taking time to view my blog and to comment, I don’t mind taking flak as it’s all part of the debate and that can only be a good thing. It’s when people make it personal or abusive, that’s when I switch off, and that includes the politicians who are sometimes worse than most. I have done that in the past and it’s doesn’t help, so for a long time now I have tried to avoid it no matter how wound up I have gotten.

      I think all the parties have a degree of adversarial politics in them and that is one of the things I would like to see end to be honest, the country is in a mess in so many ways that people need to start treating each other with a bit of respect. The other parties have got to get past their hatred for the SNP and see that the voters in Scotland have had enough of it now. Will they learn, I don’t know but I am certainly not going to be a part of that.

      I think that Better Together was a huge mistake for the unionist parties, for the media, certain areas of business, and their lack of honesty in many areas has been their undoing in the election. I don’t want to see them disappear but I do want to see more autonomy for the Scottish parties and more honesty. I will certainly be trying to influence things in that direction if I can.

      I see where you are coming from regarding federalism but real federalism would mean that if any one part disagreed with say going to war nothing could happen until common ground was found. Will we ever get a federalist country I doubt it right now, I think we will have the debate and it will happen before the next referendum but if in any future referendum if federalism is not on the ballot paper then it’s a yes vote from me, probably a yes vote either way as there were many in the Liberal party that voted yes.

      As I noted, I have always considered my a Liberal, certainly a left of centre one and one that believes that independence may be the only way to the change that Scotland needs but I do sense that there is a move outside of London now for change. I can’t see the status quo surviving that much longer, we live in interesting if somewhat depressing times.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

  7. hektorsmum

    Hi Bruce as a new/old Liberal have you any thoughts on the behaviour of the ex Secretary of State for Scotland Alistair Carmichael with regard to his attempt to smear Nicola Sturgeon and the fact that by not admitting his behaviour he has allowed a bill of £1.4 million to be run up for the enquiry? Do you think that Mr Carmichael who did not disclose this during the General Election campaign should now resign as those who voted for him were not in possession of the full facts?

    • grumpyscottishman

      Hektorsmum

      I’ve just blogged about it now based on what I have read. I suspect he has just the Liberal Democrats back 10 years.

      These politics have to end.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

    • Calum

      In fact Mr Carmichael almost certainly would have lost his seat, formerly the safest Liberal seat in the UK since the 1950s, if this information had been known a few weeks ago.

      Mr Carmichael won over the SNP with only 817 votes. Personally I favour an Orkney and Shetland bielection asap based on this gross mishandling of the public trust. With Liberals like Mr Carmichael around, who needs Tories?

      • grumpyscottishman

        Calum

        I suspect you are correct and he knew that. As my other comments have stated he will answer to you and so he should. I don’t need to call for his head because better people than me and more important people, his constituents, will. I’m not going down that road anymore, he has a lot to think about and should be considering his position himself.

        It’s a long way back and the Liberal Democrats maybe have further to fall but I hope I can maybe make a difference.

        Thanks for commenting.

        Bruce

  8. Calum

    It’s a pity you no longer support the SNP, the only main party with Scotland’s and the UK’s interests at heart. I hope you still support independence, though. When we do get independence, I expect a lot of political diversity. Until then these misguided attempts to rebuild one or other UK party in the hopes they will throw Scotland a few sweeties would be sad if they weren’t so dangerous for Scotland’s future.

    And to clarify, I’m from Orkney, voted lib dem in 2010 and never will again. Following the referendum in 2014 I joined the SNP after 20 years of being very sceptical of them, like many others, but I am now proud to say that I am not just a supporter, but a member, of the best main political party in the UK.

    No party is perfect of course, and the supporters and activists will be watching closely but many of our top activists are now SNP mps actually, so I don’t expect a wave of nepotism and corruption in the SNP any time soon.

    Anyway, I would love to see a flourishing liberal party in Scotland, but an independent Scotland. Until then it is all vote splitting and misdirection.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Calum

      It’s probably a little strange that I have went the other way. We have been on opposite journeys which is interesting in its self.

      I have always considered myself a Liberal but could never join the party. Like you I was disgusted by the BT campaign of fear and lies by the unionist parties and was not upset by the voters taking their revenge at the ballot box. However I was always a reluctant member of the SNP but was a passionate YES voter as many Liberals were and that hasn’t changed.

      I just believe that we need a strong Liberal voice and I want to be a part of trying to build that if I can in any way. I maybe won’t make any difference, they might throw me out but I can try. I believe in PR and I believe in real federalism and if that happens in an independent Scotland you won’t hear me complain.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce

  9. Sod the system

    Grumpy is not the only liberal who votes yes. I do as well. I just don’t agree with other policies of the SNP on things like centralisation. I am not petty enough to rule out working with te SNP however as they would be by number 2 but I don’t join parties to further my career.

    Good fact to note, the SNP have asked me to join and defect no less than 9 times.

    • grumpyscottishman

      Sod the System

      Please look out for my next blog later this evening where I will be arguing why Scotland still need the Liberal Democrats. Your insights and opinions, like everyone else’s, would be much appreciated. May I also wish your Dees all the best tomorrow.

      Thanks for Commenting

      Bruce

      • Political Tourist

        Massive respect to you Bruce, i’ve had a good look round your blog and found it an insight to probably what is good old fashioned Home Rule liberalism.
        As against SDPism which i remember in the 1980s.
        Respect.

        • Anonymous

          PT

          I remain a YES voter and that won’t change. I can live with Federalism but would much prefer to be in a Liberal Party in an independent Scotland. I also think that most Scots are Liberal in nature but are currently not represented by a real Liberal Party sadly. The Carmichael affair further stains the movement and the party but the leadership don’t get it.

          Thanks for commenting.

          Bruce

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